United States Bidens Covid Stimulus Bill

[Husky_Khan]

I figure this could be worthy of its own discussion even if it's not even two trillion dollars worth of stimulus. It passed the House (of course) and now it's up to the Senate to decide it's fate.

I'll touch off discussion with this amusing rumor.



Apparently any one Senator can force a reading of the Bill and since its 700 pages long it would be an estimated ten hour long reading if done.

 

[LordsFire]

I figure this could be worthy of its own discussion even if it's not even two trillion dollars worth of stimulus. It passed the House (of course) and now it's up to the Senate to decide it's fate.

I'll touch off discussion with this amusing rumor.



Apparently any one Senator can force a reading of the Bill and since its 700 pages long it would be an estimated ten hour long reading if done.

If I ever get to a place like the Senate, I see no reason not to force that with every damn bill. Maybe I'd find a reason between now and then, but unless we're in an emergency, I can't think of any good reason that it shouldn't be done.

 

[Captain X]

I think I might suggest that to my Senators. I'm sure they'll reject the idea out of hand, because they're only there to fill their own pockets. Nice idea, though.

 

[Megadeath]

Seems like a pointless waste of tax payer funded time. Are the Senators even required to be there for the reading?

 

[LordsFire]

Seems like a pointless waste of tax payer funded time. Are the Senators even required to be there for the reading?

When we live in a land where 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' is the standing policy, the people passing laws can bloody well take the time to have the presented in open legislatural session before they vote on them.

I'm sick of thousand-page-long bills being passed, that no one other than highly specialized bureaucrats will ever fully understand. If a law can't be understood by the average citizen easily and quickly, that in and of itself is a problem.

 

[Megadeath]

When we live in a land where 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' is the standing policy, the people passing laws can bloody well take the time to have the presented in open legislatural session before they vote on them.

I'm sick of thousand-page-long bills being passed, that no one other than highly specialized bureaucrats will ever fully understand. If a law can't be understood by the average citizen easily and quickly, that in and of itself is a problem.

I don't entirely disagree. But, so what? This doesn't actually do anything to prevent or fix the problem. Especially if I'm right in my suspicion that they're not required to sit through the reading. Even if they do have to be there nothing stops them from ignoring it completely whilst they catch up on other work, or just power nap.

 

[LordsFire]

I don't entirely disagree. But, so what? This doesn't actually do anything to prevent or fix the problem. Especially if I'm right in my suspicion that they're not required to sit through the reading. Even if they do have to be there nothing stops them from ignoring it completely whilst they catch up on other work, or just power nap.

At the absolute minimum, it slows down the speed with which new bills and laws are passed. Barring emergency circumstances, that's a win in and of itself.

It also at least somewhat increases the chances that they'll actually pay attention to what they're doing.

 

[Megadeath]

At the absolute minimum, it slows down the speed with which new bills and laws are passed. Barring emergency circumstances, that's a win in and of itself.

It also at least somewhat increases the chances that they'll actually pay attention to what they're doing.

I mean, it slows them down by a day or two, and I can't believe a single person will learn anything they didn't already know. Especially since after doing some looking it seems my earlier assumption was correct and the senators aren't even required to be in attendance. Basically, some nobody will have to read a lot of beuracratic, technical minutia to an empty room for 2 days, with other supporting workers standing around or kept on standby, whilst politicians work in their backroom offices.

Hell, if the US government wants to pay several people a living wage to stand in a big, empty room reading incomprehensible gibberish that no one cares about or could follow even if they did, purely to make it a matter of public record when it already was, they could fund an amateur theatre group performing Shakespeare. At least that would make the people doing it happy.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, it slows them down by a day or two, and I can't believe a single person will learn anything they didn't already know. Especially since after doing some looking it seems my earlier assumption was correct and the senators aren't even required to be in attendance. Basically, some nobody will have to read a lot of beuracratic, technical minutia to an empty room for 2 days, with other supporting workers standing around or kept on standby, whilst politicians work in their backroom offices.

Hell, if the US government wants to pay several people a living wage to stand in a big, empty room reading incomprehensible gibberish that no one cares about or could follow even if they did, purely to make it a matter of public record when it already was, they could fund an amateur theatre group performing Shakespeare. At least that would make the people doing it happy.

You do know that the first stimulus bill that was sent out was so long they couuld not read it before they voted on it.
So why should senators vote on something they may never know what allis in it justbecause "For COVID"

 

[LordsFire]

I mean, it slows them down by a day or two, and I can't believe a single person will learn anything they didn't already know. Especially since after doing some looking it seems my earlier assumption was correct and the senators aren't even required to be in attendance. Basically, some nobody will have to read a lot of beuracratic, technical minutia to an empty room for 2 days, with other supporting workers standing around or kept on standby, whilst politicians work in their backroom offices.

Hell, if the US government wants to pay several people a living wage to stand in a big, empty room reading incomprehensible gibberish that no one cares about or could follow even if they did, purely to make it a matter of public record when it already was, they could fund an amateur theatre group performing Shakespeare. At least that would make the people doing it happy.

Two or more days for a significant fraction of the bills that go through congress. A lot of bills are just stupidly long.

 

[lordmcdeath]

It might help if the Republicans were making the case for targeted relief. Actually going out and making it, because as it stands, stimulus as free money is pretty bloody popular among most people. Delaying tactics work, but only if you are doing the spade work now. Hell the latest yougov poll (I know polls, but its what we've got beside personal opinion) has it at 76% positive, with 60% of approval by Republicans.

Someone needs to do more than vote no. They need to make the case that either the bill is unneeded or that their targeted relief bill is better and why. They need to persuade America.

 

[Wargamer08]

Basically this is stage two of a democracy realizing it can vote itself more money and stuff, the point at which both sides instead of just one see no reason not to just vote for more.

Sure it polls well, it’s free money after the economy got gigafucked by political brinksmanship and with the state of the deficit who cares how much money you print right?

At this point the Republicans are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. If they don’t vote for economic bailouts after standing by and letting Corona hysteria totally destroy small businesses they are getting thrown out. If they let the bailouts get too out of control hyperinflation finishes what Corona chan started.

 

[Captain X]

If I was them, I'd focus more on help for small businesses. I also might consider creating something akin to the old conservation corps and rebuilding and repairing the nation's infrastructure.

 

[prinCZess]

I, and everyone else who lucked into the right 2019 tax situation, was promised a $2000 bribe from the public purse, and I, for one, will be unconsoled by--nay, insulted--by anything less. You think my civic virtue is for sale for a measly 1400? Uh-uh, Sugar-Daddy Sam. I'm no cheap date. I needs me a Louis Vuitton handbag before inflation screws us!

More relevantly to the broader situation...Since we're dumping gobs of money into things, those gobs should actually all be concentrated on immediate/near-term expenditures rather than anything going 2022+ on timeframes. Seems like it should include provisions (which may exist but have certainly not been pointed to in any news I've seen covering it) axing small-business taxes in addition to the ongoing loan guarantees and the like, and perhaps actively subsidize and/or tax-incentive the hell out of relocation of manufacturing and resource extraction from China to American locales (course, that last one would be a nonstarters since NIMBYism is the calling-card of a significant section of Congress and their constituents...Or, at least, NIMBYism when they're not actively promoting making things worse environmentally and economically because of it).

 

[Abhishekm]

Seems like a pointless waste of tax payer funded time. Are the Senators even required to be there for the reading?

I'll be honest, having a policy in the process of being voted on read aloud (and for most there and definetly for everyone else that bothers to tunein being the first time they hear whats in it in full) be considered the real waste of taxpayer money or time is kinda hilarious to me. What does America pay congress by the hour?

 

[Megadeath]

I'll be honest, having a policy in the process of being voted on read aloud (and for most there and definetly for everyone else that bothers to tunein being the first time they hear whats in it in full) be considered the real waste of taxpayer money or time is kinda hilarious to me. What does America pay congress by the hour?

I mean, it's already available to them so they can read it ahead of time if they are interested, and they aren't required to be there if they're not, they won't be there when it's read aloud. It's just whoever has to read it, and what ever technical support staff have to be there any time they're in session plus maybe one or two senators looking to make some grandstanding statement when reading is done.

That's the thing; this doesn't force anyone who wasn't already inclined to read it to listen to it, and anyone who would want to hear it can read it since I'm pretty sure proposed bills are a matter of public record. All this does is waste time, and not even enough of that to be meaningful or useful as a delaying tactic.

 

[LordsFire]

Yes, it is usable as a delaying tactic. Because a lot of congressional bills are absolutely enormous. Less monster bills full of pork and custom-designed loopholes is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[Abhishekm]

So it forces noting, it costs virtually nothing in the scale of government and it doesn't even force politicians apart from the one guy reading it aloud to add even another 10 hours to their 50 (I assume) days a year (non-campaigning) work schedule. Big whoop?

 

[Husky_Khan]

The bill narrowly passed the Senate 50-49 on strict party lines. Kamala Harris wasn't needed to pass the winning vote because one Republican Senator, Dan Sullivan of Alaska, had to leave for his home state to attend his Father-in-Laws funeral.

They had been in session since 9am Friday and had a Vote-a-Rama on amendments, including the failed introduction by Bernie Sanders of a nationwide $15 minimum wage amendment that was voted down 58-42. One significant change from the House Bill is that the extension of Unemployment benefits is reduced from $400 to $300 dollars a week.

Senate narrowly passes COVID relief bill after sleepless, tumultuous night

The Senate on Saturday narrowly passed President Biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief plan following a marathon overnight session in a key vote that puts new stimulus checks and expanded unemployment checks one step closer to the pockets of the American public.

www.foxnews.com

The modified bill must now go back to the House, where Nancy Pelosi can only afford to lose four votes apparently to pass the final bill there and send it to Biden's desk as his first legislative victory.

 

[Zachowon]

So what was all in the bill?