ASOIAF/GOT ASOIAF Ideas, Recs, and Discussion thread

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Okay

Though, you think even Essosi would be appalled? I mean they regularly already do things like sexual slavery, killing slave babies as “training”, crucify slave children en masse, make slaves into gladiators, traumatised dehumanized eunuch slave soldiers etc

Admittedly, I can’t help but think of Daenerys having her own Pelinal Whitestrake due to her also going against slavery

And guys like the nobility of Meereen and Slaver’s Bay are sorta already pretty “ridiculous” in terms of how openly evil they are

I would write a snippet, if I could, but haven’t done so for years

I can dig in the lore books to clear it up. Personally, I think it is people reading it wrong, because to me the wording implies that the Ayleids were the ones producing the drugs, so they could see visions of torment...because seriously that is something those dicks would do.

They probably would be appalled, given that the Aylieds, or rather the ones that didn't side with the slave revolt, were even more evil by my reckoning, I am pretty sure the Slavers of ASOIAF wouldn't light children on fire for night-time tiger-sport. Or worship the literal god of rape...well anymore than anyone else would, probably some would, most would make the wise choice and not worship Molag Bal.

Not really, Pelinal was divinely sent because things were really bad. Daenerys was just another mad Targ burninating things she didn't like, because that is what Targs do. At least from my understanding... Though looking at Rhaegar, I think my point stands about the Targs, he did "burninate" many things.
 
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CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I can dig in the lore books to clear it up. Personally, I think it is people reading it wrong, because to me the wording implies that the Ayleids were the ones producing the drugs, so they could see visions of torment...because seriously that is something those dicks would do.

They probably would be appalled, given that the Aylieds, or rather the ones that didn't side with the slave revolt, were even more evil by my reckoning, I am pretty sure the Slavers of ASOIAF wouldn't light children on fire for night-time tiger-sport. Or worship the literal god of rape...well anymore than anyone else would, probably some would, most would make the wise choice and not worship Molag Bal.

Not really, Pelinal was divinely sent because things were really bad. Daenerys was just another mad Targ burninating things she didn't like, because that is what Targs do. At least from my understanding... Though looking at Rhaegar, I think my point stands about the Targs, he did "burninate" many things.

Wasn’t there someone in Meereen who had kids covered in honey and had bears eat them alive in a stadium? Or that was a fanfic

Yeah, but the idea of some insanely bloodthirsty and angry crusader coming after assholes and tearing them off their high horses sounds pretty carthatic

Especially given how much they consider themselves to be “civilized” compared to those of Westeros who don’t practice slavery

It’d be like when Umaril was going on about his “long noble lineage” and when Pelinal spat on the Ayleid Lords for bragging and when he came to Alessia’s place going “these were their eastern chieftains, no longer full of their prattle”

Though, yeah I know there would be “innocents” amongst them

Then again, didn’t the Dothraki women and children brutalise Lhazareen and take their stuff while the Dothraki men were also raiding?
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
So I was thinking of a Lannister SI(come on you knew I would).

Tyrion in ACOK. Book Tyrion(though perhaps a somewhat taller and maybe a bit less ugly) for added challenges. The SI would be aware of the books and show. Basically the SI would be have to deal with LF, Varys, Cersei, Stannis’ oncoming offensive and the aftermath.

While aware their actions could have butterflies that render their foreknowledge useless.

For example-as an SI-I might handle the Blackwater defense differently, seeking to deny Stannis access to the shore via sallying parties and keeping his fleet outside Blackwater Bay. I’d try to preserve ships and men-maybe attempt to use fire ships and have the sailors and marines leave via rowboat. I’d also probably use the mountain clansmen on the city defenses or as part of the sallying raids. Stannis might be aware of the Tyrell vanguard-but I’d gamble the numbers would favor me even if he was.

In terms of other actions-probably still send Myrcella to Dorne, though I’d likely have a contingency for Tommen to be evacuated in the event the city fell-to highgarden to wed Marge. I’d also order Ser Dontos arrested-and interrogate him about LF. Not before spying on his meetings with Sansa. I’d also discretely tell LF I am aware of the frame job and that I will not be forgetting it. He can either try to kill me then, or I can provoke him into treason later.

The SI would have to deal with Cersei-if I’m the SI, I’d probably tell her Tywin wishes me to be obeyed or face severe punishment. And I’d keep the Kettleblacks off the KG. I’d also probably dispense with the banter and tell her she’s an incompetent moron and that if she doesn’t want to adorn a spike with Stannis on the iron throne, she should let me run the show. Of course being Cersei no amount of wisdom will suffice, so other measures such as condoning the queen to her chambers, or otherwise marginalizing her as much as possible would have to be considered. I also bring up the Valonqar just for the lols, and call her a superstitious fool who lives her life in terror and obedience to the words of a wood’s witch. Maybe that will give her something to chew on.

As for Varys-make use of him while also keeping people on him. I know who he supports, and what his real agenda is. Probably order him knocked off at the Blackwater-discretely.

I’d get the faith riled up about Stannis, and cajole and threaten the crownlords into giving military support. Stokeworth-especially. Levies and knights and squires.

Also probably create a city militia-distinct from the gold cloaks, comprised of citizen volunteers offered pay and food. With Spears, crossbows, and other basic weapons. I’d want to negate Stannis’ numerical superiority as much as possible.

I’d also dispense with Shae. Send her off with a bag of gold. In the book verse she’s a gold digger so she should be happy with that.

For the riot-probably seek to preempt it with food from the royal larders and charity from the faith. Any man who aids in the construction of the defenses or joins the city militia gets say five shillings a day and bread. Seek to prevent the deaths of the High Septon, Preston Greenfield, Aron Santagar, and the probable abduction of Tyrek Lannister. If at all possible.

I think the most fun part about a ACOK Tyrion SI-is taking actions that could hurt you in the short run or in the long run. And the butterfly effect.

In the Blackwater itself-have a sellsword kill Mandon Moore, or at least keep at least one or two people between myself and him at all times.
 
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The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
The Something I've played with, but haven't had the energy to write but.




As commanded by Lord Brynden Rivers, Hand of King, thirty eighth to bear that honor in the service of the Targaryen dynasty, in the year two hundred and fourteen after the Dragon’s conquest. I, Maester Loras relate an account by Ser Eustace Lanett of House Lanett of Lannisport and a Maester by the name of Cilas in relation to the Great Spring Sickness and a mysterious wreck found near Lannisport.


The idea being, what if the Great Spring Sickness was brought to Westeros from another continent, what if all hands perished that time and the years turned into decades which turned into a century and what if these people returned at last?

Say, during the war of the five kings?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
The Something I've played with, but haven't had the energy to write but.




As commanded by Lord Brynden Rivers, Hand of King, thirty eighth to bear that honor in the service of the Targaryen dynasty, in the year two hundred and fourteen after the Dragon’s conquest. I, Maester Loras relate an account by Ser Eustace Lanett of House Lanett of Lannisport and a Maester by the name of Cilas in relation to the Great Spring Sickness and a mysterious wreck found near Lannisport.


The idea being, what if the Great Spring Sickness was brought to Westeros from another continent, what if all hands perished that time and the years turned into decades which turned into a century and what if these people returned at last?

Say, during the war of the five kings?

You mean they all came back to life? Also, not sure how capable all would be

Just to make sure, by “hands” you mean the guys who are “Hand of The King”?
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
You mean they all came back to life? Also, not sure how capable all would be

No?

Just to make sure, by “hands” you mean the guys who are “Hand of The King”?

No I mean "all hands on board" as in all the seamen on that wreck died.

As for who'd be returning, it's metaphorical, the people who built that ship...the race..etc etc.

IE what if more of those fuckers showed up later?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
No?



No I mean "all hands on board" as in all the seamen on that wreck died.

As for who'd be returning, it's metaphorical, the people who built that ship...the race..etc etc.

IE what if more of those fuckers showed up later?

Okay

As for those guys showing up later, what's to say they're not immune to the disease themselves? Will it die out by then? Or did they experience it in their homeland?

And let me guess, NOT amongst the Essos peoples Maester Yandel covered?
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Okay

As for those guys showing up later, what's to say they're not immune to the disease themselves? Will it die out by then? Or did they experience it in their homeland?

It would have been a common cold to them, due to having spent so many generations combatting it. Plague wouldn't be the only thing they're bringing...Guns Germ and Steel and all that.


And let me guess, NOT amongst the Essos peoples Maester Yandel covered?

No, they'd be from another continent entirely.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
It would have been a common cold to them, due to having spent so many generations combatting it. Plague wouldn't be the only thing they're bringing...Guns Germ and Steel and all that.




No, they'd be from another continent entirely.

Ulthos or Sothoryos? Really unexplored




I know you guys dislike it, but I feel like unloading this sort of stuff every now and then

Evil Isekai Dungeoncore-Idea: The SI is some sort of meteor monster that crash-lands Beyond-The-Wall and burrows deep beneath the Earth

Somehow this creates all sorts of mutant monsters and a constant desire for more biomass, with said monsters spreading out and raiding for DNA

Though SOMEHOW it can't absorb humans and mutate them

Evil-Isekai-Dungeon or "EID" proceeds to make "settlements" that have large openings for which Wildlings can see things

"EID" offers Wildlings food and shelter in these "settlements"

The only condition is that they eat these hallucinogenic mushrooms that render them blind and be manual labor

latest


The Night's Watch is aware of the situation and has also told the Northern Lords who are debating what to do

The main perspectives are Ned Stark who's wondering what to do Beyond-The-Wall and guys like Mance Rayder who debate whether or not to eat the mushrooms and serve as slaves forever or end up killed by The Others and serve as undead slaves forever

"EID" does not show its perspective and is only seen from outsiders' POV but can be best described as "hungry" and with an obsession with constant expansion of its nest and to take joy over dominating other lifeforms
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Here's an idea.

What if a bout of greyplague or some other illness breaks out at the start of the war of the five kings. Hitting indiscriminately-killing Stannis, Joffrey, Jaimie, the great Jon Umber, Mace Tyrell, among others. Probably going through multiple vectors.

Let's say right after Eddard Stark is executed-perhaps introduced by Myroshi traders, I dunno.

Stannis dies say within days of sending out his declaration, Joffrey dies a week to the day after killing Ned, Mace Tyrell dies soon the day Renly is crowned, and Jaimie dies in Stark captivity. Infuriating Lord Tywin who resolves to destroy House Stark.

It also rips through KL-killing at least a third of the population, as well as Grand Maester Pycelle. Tommen and Cersei both become very ill and bedridden. Tyrion reigns as king without too much interference. Other characters like Loras or Catelyn also become sick. Catelyn is thus unable to go to Renly and does not advise Robb in any capacity.

It affects the crownlands, stormlands, reach, and riverlands. Spreading throughout the Stark and Lannister armies, reducing their fighting capacity each by up to forty percent.

Now I don't have the timeline worked out.

But this sort of POD is fun, because its not ROBish(per se) and not affecting a single person.

So the Florents likely still back Shireen, albeit this is a far worse position to be in, without a brother of Robert and Shireen herself is not the most appealing claimant. Tommen is of course more pliable than Joffrey but there is no shadow baby.

I'm leaning towards Renly winning, but then again-I see the plague ripping through his camp at Bitterbridge. Loras also being bedridden is going to affect his disposition. Perhaps Renly lays siege to King's Landing-with plague affecting both the defense and besieging army, however at the last minute aid arrives-from Shireen Baratheon-betrothed to Tommen her cousin. Letter diplomacy between Tyrion and Lord Axell Florent(serving as her regent) convince the Florents Stannis claim about the incest was false, and House Baratheon of Dragonstone relieves the siege of King's Landing.

While Robb and Tywin batter each other in the Riverlands. With several of his best men dead or in their sickbeds, Robb doesn't go west, or the Leffords manage to block entry, perhaps with Grey Wind killed or wounded. Thus its a stalemate going into war.

The Riverlands are even more devastated than they are, and there has been no victor in the south.

Renly is beaten at King's Landing, but manages to withdraw to the Reach with an army of around 25,000-30,000 men. The garrison of King's Landing is basically gone and so are the Lannister retainers, with Shireen's men filling up the city posts.

Lord Florent profits handsomely from the marriage, with the promise of Highgarden as well with the war won.

In this case, I still see the Ironborn invading the north, with the plague being limited to White Harbor(Lord Manderly imposes a violent quarantine and emulates what Lord Hightower did ninety years prior).

So by 300 AC-Tommen and Shireen are wed in King's Landing, Robb remains entrenched in Riverrun and Tywin remains at Harrenhal. Both armies reduced to raiding and manuevering. Neither willing to give a decisive battle. Melisandre starts preaching her religion with the backing of the queens men(who have been marginalized in Shireen's court), and while having some success triggers a backlash, the Lannisters are not keen to see escalate into a religious conflict.

The ironborn hold the north tenuously. And Renly licks his wounds, and starts raising more men from the stormlands and reach. Tommen and Shireen are two child monarchs betrothed and they can not consummate for years, while religious unrest breaks out in King's Landing. He hopes to return as a supporter of the Fot7, triumphant. While Tyrion works with his Florent allies caustically and suspiciously to ensure the city has enough food as Tyrion fears the people will rise up in support of Renly in the event of another siege. All is not lost however for the Lannister-Florent coalition as Renly has been unable to get a son into Margaery, and Loras has died of the plague. Renly's supporters are increasingly frustrated with his failure to keep up his promise of rewards, titles and plunder. As Lord Tarly gets to work preparing for the next round of war. Certain houses in the stormlands have also declared for Tommen. Renly however has no intention of ceding his claim and believes however weakened the might of the reach will win him the day. With the Redwyne fleet winning battles off the coast of Tarth and raiding as far north as cracklaw point, Renly hopes to meet the royal fleet and destroy it. However Dragonstone and King's Landing together make naval superiority a hard prospect.

For the Starks-Catelyn remains in her sickbed, and Robb is increasingly unstable. With his brothers dead(supposedly) and no victory in sight, and his lords demanding their boy king do something. Robb however fears to meet Tywin before the walls of harrenhal, and Tywin has not taken the bait so far. Tywin remains flustered the boy has not taken his bait, as both men wage a grinding war of attrition, even as the riverlands peasantry die in the hundreds of thousands due to malnutrition, starvation, disease, and chevauchee raids.

Varys survived the plague, but his network of birds was devastated, he has informed Illyrio to get as many allies for Aegon as possible. The Dornish remain neutral, but are simmering. Tyrion still sent Myrcella to Dorne, as Doran sits in the water garden, and Oberyn seethes. They want vengeance on House Lannister but do not wish to support Renly Baratheon.

The Vale is neutral, with the plague outbreak slowed-LF is trying to buy, blackmail and bribe as many Lords as he can, betting on a protracted war between Renly and Tommen, and has sought to remain good graces with both Baratheons. He has considered killing Tommen, but has instead decided to encourage unrest, with R'hllorism spreading under Melisandre's auspices in the crownlands, and increasing unrest with the faith-LF feels religious riots or outright sectarian violence will be much beneficial. If the Lannisters prevail-he can claim to be bringing the Vale onboard, and if Renly wins, well LF has sent out feelers and is convinced he can tell Renly he was merely persuading Lady Lysa and the vale lords of the wisdom of submission the rightful king.

*This was not inspired by the current coronavirus crisis, as much as it might seem so. Historically plague outbreaks and wars occurred simaltaneously, and often the plague affected the course and outcome of the war especially in the medieval ages.

So this scenario is about imagining an outbreak of plague killing certain figures. Which include:

Stannis
Joffrey
Arya
Lord Great Jon Umber
Mace Tyrell
Pycelle
Alester Florent
Jaimie Lannister
and tens of thousands if not nearly a million smallfolk and plenty of soldiers as well.
 
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Tryglaw

Well-known member
@Lord Invictus
If a plague hit and word got out (and it would), Northern Host would stay well away from affected lands. People "back then" may not have known the theory behind bacteriology, but they knew how the plagues spread- by contact. Hence medieval leprosaria, or edicts banning those that were infected from city limits and such.

If a plague hits KL after Ned got beheaded, most likely it will be hailed as divine justice of Old Gods having punished the Lannisters. Rob closes borders, sits that one out.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
It doesn't just hit King's Landing though? But the stormlands and Highgarden, dragonstone and White Harbor.

Also the war in the riverlands had already begun when Ned died. I actually recall Jaimie was captured before it happened.

I imagine the plague spreading through multiple vectors, but coming from Essos. Hence I imagine the westerlands and iron islands to be less affected.

It also gets some of what I want for the concept-namely a Renly-Tommen war and an alliance between House Baratheon of Dragonstone and House Baratheon of King's Landing. To get that, Stannis has to die. So I used a plague as a plot device.

It also has Tywin and Robb being ground by attrition in a stalemate. Plague makes the chevauchee warfare a much less profitable means of waging war. As the peasants die-there is no one to collect the harvest from, and thus crops rot. Not to mention it wearing down both armies. Sooner or later I suspect something would give. As for Renly I can see his army being ravaged by disease and him assaulting KL with a weakened force, allowing Tyrion to hold the line while the Florents arrive with a navy, and all the narrow sea, smashing Renly on the river. Renly lives however and retreats back to Highgarden-a secure powerbase.
 
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Karmic Acumen

Well-known member
It doesn't just hit King's Landing though? But the stormlands and Highgarden, dragonstone and White Harbor.
Same thing, North vs. South would justify it unless the Vale got wrecked early on, and even then it's likely Lisa's lunacy would come out and become justification for it.

For the rest of your story idea, I'm rather leery of inserting plot devices AND playing god with them for the specific purpose of achieving a plot point later on. If this were that kind of franchise, sure, but GRRM is rather pointed about his books being character-driven. Hell, he screws with his own prophecies to sell it.

You'd have to disguise or distract from the diabous ex machina VERY well.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Same thing, North vs. South would justify it unless the Vale got wrecked early on, and even then it's likely Lisa's lunacy would come out and become justification for it.

For the rest of your story idea, I'm rather leery of inserting plot devices AND playing god with them for the specific purpose of achieving a plot point later on. If this were that kind of franchise, sure, but GRRM is rather pointed about his books being character-driven. Hell, he screws with his own prophecies to sell it.

You'd have to disguise or distract from the diabous ex machina VERY well.
TBH, I kind of wrote that without a set goal in mind, just a burst of creativity. What came to screen flowed from my mind as I typed. It wasn't pre planned.

-Tywin and Robb in the Riverlands in a withering stalemate
-Renly v. Tommen
-Alliance between House Baratheon of King's Landing(Tommen) and House Baratheon of Dragonstone(Shireen).

The above are the three points that emerged from the plague idea. If my muse had been in a different mood, I might have taken the scenario differently.

But yes, the plague serves as a plot device to ensure certain things happen and certain things don't.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Idea: The Wildlings invade and manage to get through areas in The Wall right during Robert’s arrival at Winterfell

Mance Rayder with the help of Wargs, knows that King Robert is in Winterfell

The fact that the Northern Houses haven’t been bloodied by outside forces in awhile means they still have a lot of men and can kill them off

How would Mance deal with the situation if he can’t exactly keep a guerilla war on for a few years
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Dumb Idea:

Viserys or Joffrey hit their heads while young and somehow become Jack Sparrow expies



If Viserys, Dany questions her brothers sanity and the idea of ever going back “home”
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
BUILD A CANAL!!!!

Sorry, over on AH there was an obsession with building a canal in the Neck for the North’s prosperity in ASOIAF

Barring bad geography that doesn't show up on maps, it is actually a good idea.

Nor would (again barring geography) it actually be that hard or complicated. Smallfolk are dirt cheap, you simply have them start digging.

Granted, you wouldn't just do it across the Neck (although that route is quite useful for shipping between Bravvos & Lannisport, and more broadly for reaching the west coast of Westeros). You would also do it in a number of other places, linking rivers/dredging them to make them navigable.

Spoiler of a map that I made for something else

Connect the various bodies of water with relatively small connections and you will drastically decrease transport costs. Travel via water is still one twelfth the cost of even modern land travel; in the age of horse drawn wagons it is multiple orders of magnitude cheaper.
 

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