ASOIAF/GOT ASOIAF Ideas, Recs, and Discussion thread

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
I think they were going for a holy Roman Empire thing with the notion of an elected monarchy at the end of GOT.

Ignoring yknow the infrastructure required for that and the fact that the Hapsburgs took it over any way

Even then, there is the issue of Bran being a Northerner... and elected at the same time as North has declared independence. That is like, say, Electors of Holy Roman Empire electing a Prince of Scotland to be new Holy Roman Emperor.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Wasn't it because litterally everone else who had a better claim to the throne had murdered eachother by that point?
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Even then, there is the issue of Bran being a Northerner... and elected at the same time as North has declared independence. That is like, say, Electors of Holy Roman Empire electing a Prince of Scotland to be new Holy Roman Emperor.

That only worked because everyone was too exhausted to do anything and too much of the remaining military power was concentrated in the hands of people who would body anyone who dared threaten that perception of stability. Westeros needed to heal and with the seasons changing to something approaching a more regular cycle and magic entering a cooling phase...My guess everyone needs to spend way more time on reorienting their economies and healing and recovering.

There'd be a few decades before they could reasonably do anything.

Wasn't it because literally everone else who had a better claim to the throne had murdered eachother by that point?

That too...Except Gendry and House Velaryon zaru.png

Granted, Gendry wasn't gonna push and the Velaryon's never appeared in the show for some reason.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Wasn't it because litterally everone else who had a better claim to the throne had murdered eachother by that point?
Which is why you would get the throne fracturing as opposed to unifying under Bran.

I mean he has zero claim to the loyalty or fealty of Daenerys's forces and the fact that his "brother" killed her makes it unlikely that they would follow.

He doesn't actually have claim to the North, Jon was proclaimed its king, he bowed to Dany (before killing her), and Sansa was named his heir. Nor does Bran have any real claim to the armies of the North; if he wants Northern loyalty then it would be as the prophet of the Old Gods and a Stark far more than anything of his own.

The Faith wouldn't just oppose him, they would flatly call him a heretical, sorcerous, abomination spawned from a line of such.

The Lannisters are largely broken and while Tyrion is still around, he lost the support of Dany's forces and has zero loyalty to him in the Westerlands; nor does Bran really have any claim to his support.

If the Tyrells support Bran then they will face open civil war as the Hightowers take the opportunity to move against the stewards when said stewards are already weakened and without allies; it would also be a religious war.

Bran might keep the Riverlands and Vale thanks to his blood connection and Sansa, but both are also Andal heavy and the Riverlands are massively ravaged by war. Neither would actually support him using military force to secure the throne.

The only two people who could have sat the Iron Throne by acclamation and with broad acceptance were Dany and Jon. Of course, Jon had to be an insane idiot who proved that his fathers (both of them) political idiocy bred true.

Granted, Dany deciding that she had to conquer the entire world really did come out of the blue and was flatly insane.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Wasn't it because litterally everone else who had a better claim to the throne had murdered eachother by that point?

Bran has no claim at all. It is not about "better claim", but "having a claim". Podrick and Hot Pie have about as much claim to the Iron Throne as Bran does. More, in fact, since they live in what remained of the Seven Kingdoms, whereas Bran is from the North.

EDIT: Now that is not to say that electing a member of foreign dynasty as a monarch is impossible - it did happen throughout history - but in this particular case, I do not see why they would do something like that, especially as Westeros has no history of elective monarchy. Croatia and Hungary did elect Habsburgs as their rulers, but that is not comparable to this situation as:
1) ruler elected was the Habsburg Emperor, not a junior member of the family
2) election of the Emperor meant the personal union with Habsburg lands
3) election was done by more-or-less the entirety of nobility (and even so caused a civil war), as opposed to a handful of assholes with no real claim to... anything, really (oh, and Westerosi "electorate" involved a known traitor)
4) both countries had history of dynasties going extinct and nobility electing rulers - something which in Westeros happened once, was a consequence of murder and involved an outright civil war, and even so succession was in fact still based on blood ties as opposed to election (Robert got the job not because he was elected but because he was related to Targaryens)

Say, if you were to transform every ethnicity into a fantasy race in the setting, what'd it be?

Orcs. For all of them, except maybe Wildlings (they'd remain human).
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
Why does everyone forget that the iron throne, not just the chair but the institution was destroyed?

Whatever mystical events may happen in the books, in the show Jon was out of contention(the unsullied held him for Dany’s death) and thus the king was chosen by the vote of the nobility.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Why does everyone forget that the iron throne, not just the chair but the institution was destroyed?

Whatever mystical events may happen in the books, in the show Jon was out of contention(the unsullied held him for Dany’s death) and thus the king was chosen by the vote of the nobility.

See my edit. Also, if the institution of Iron Throne had been destroyed, Bran could not have been crowned the King of Westeros.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
He became King because he was acknowledged as King by the nobles.

That does nothing to change the fact that those nobles acknowledging him is farcical.

Seriously, the throne should have been sundered and the Seven Kingdoms split once more.

Bran as King of the North, Riverlands, and Vale is reasonably justifiable. He could have gotten away, probably, with naming Sansa as the Lady of the Vale and marrying her to one of the more powerful of the Vale nobles to establish a new ruling house. And he had the best blood claim of anyone still living to the Riverlands, not to mention the best practical claim to it.

Tell the Unsullied and Dothraki that they could ravage the Crownlands and Reach to their heart's content for all he cared, but that if they moved into his territory then they should be aware that he had a Faceless Man at his call and the ability to command the beasts of the forest to be his spies; he would need no armies to shatter them if they truly pushed.

If Tyrion was willing to bend the knee, he might also get away with claiming the Westerlands as well (assuming that Tyrion could actually make his own claim stick without foreign support).

But the Reach, Dorne, Crownlands, and Stormlands are never going to bow to a Northern heretic who is securing his throne via magical spies and assassins - and the only way Bran can secure said throne is with his greensight and Arya. If the Tyrells tried to bow then the Hightowers would revolt against them, and why would Dorne bow?
 

Firebat

Well-known member
Yes he did. Like many of the other players of the game, he had an army as his claim. Mind control also helps.
I guess an equally interesting question to "Why did they elect Bran King?" would be "Why would Bran want to be King?"

I mean it's not like Bran has a great ambition like Tywin. He has no duty bug like Ned. He is not the only guy available like Robert. What does he care about the throne? It's not like it gives him anything he can't take for himself with magic.
 

Tryglaw

Well-known member
I don't think he even cares about mere mortals anymore

Look at how he talked to Sansa about her rape by Ramsay

Even Bloodraven behaved more human than him and he was the one stuck to a tree for many many decades

That's because the Bloodraven was an adult with decades worth of life experience behind him, he had lived a full life prior to his "merger" with the Weirwood tree.
(And not just any life, but one of legitimised royal bastard and Hand of King to boot.)

Bran on the other hand was a child who didn't really live all that much, for frame of reference he had very little to draw / fall back upon.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
That's because the Bloodraven was an adult with decades worth of life experience behind him, he had lived a full life prior to his "merger" with the Weirwood tree.
(And not just any life, but one of legitimised royal bastard and Hand of King to boot.)

Bran on the other hand was a child who didn't really live all that much, for frame of reference he had very little to draw / fall back upon.

I think Bran might have also spent too much time, even in a few moments, looking through the past-present-future of the world

Planetos may as well be completely fictional to him


Maybe Bran's some sort of avatar or variation of the Godhand?
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
You guys keep forgetting, the dude stuck in the tree in the show isn't Blood Raven, he was some northern Cave man from the age of heroes.

At least in the TV show, which is what you guys are discussing at present.
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
The symbol Bran uses is a raven. Its in Brienne's KG armor.

The show didn't include Bloodraven because that would have involved a whole lot of exposition and God forbid flashbacks, something D&D absolutely wanted to avoid. (The only flashback in the entire show is the Maggy and Cersei scene). They were outright allergic to them.

So is not Bloodraven? Well yes, but technically no. Its basically a generic surface of Bloodraven, with the raven symbolism being something for us book fans to notice.
 

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