ASBs give all Jews (but no gentiles) worldwide in January 1933 a vision of what the next 12.5 years are going to look like for them

WolfBear

Well-known member
What if ASBs (Alien Space Bats) give all Jews (but no gentiles) worldwide in January 1933 a vision of what the next 12.5 years are going to look like for them? So, all Jews in the world are going to see that six million of them will get murdered over the next 12.5 years, but no gentiles will. Anyway, what effects will this have?

Frankly, I suspect that this would result in an even more rapid rush to attempt for the exits. Soviet Jews in Ukraine and Belarus would try moving to the Russian interior in much greater numbers, for instance. And when Poland will get partitioned between the Nazis and the Soviets, all Polish Jews who are not suicidal will rush to move over to the Soviet side of Poland, if Stalin will actually allow it. But even this won't be enough due to the Fall of France and Operation Barbarossa, so they'll try extremely hard afterwards to engage in subversive activities so that they will get deported to gulags in the interior of the Soviet Union en masse and thus survive the Holocaust in astronomically greater numbers since the Nazis won't be able to get to them in the interior of the Soviet Union. I could also see some or even many European Jews trying to move to India or Sub-Saharan Africa or Southeast Asia or China since even this would be superior to almost certain death in the hands of the Nazis.

Anyway, how many additional Jews do you think would have ultimately ended up surviving the Holocaust in this scenario? Thoughts on this?
 

Chiron

Well-known member
Someone will take a shot at Hitler. Some will pass it off as a bad dream. Others put their affairs in order and go for a stroll and don't come back. Others will become ardent Nazis and publicly renounce their Jewishness and convert to Christianity for varying reasons. Others as you say will get out of Dodge City.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Someone will take a shot at Hitler. Some will pass it off as a bad dream. Others put their affairs in order and go for a stroll and don't come back. Others will become ardent Nazis and publicly renounce their Jewishness and convert to Christianity for varying reasons. Others as you say will get out of Dodge City.

Converting to Christianity probably won't save them if the fate of Edith Stein and Irene Nemirovsky is anything to go by, though.

I wonder just how easy/difficult it will be for a random Jew or a dozen or a hundred of them to assassinate Hitler. This isn't 1919, after all.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
Converting to Christianity probably won't save them if the fate of Edith Stein and Irene Nemirovsky is anything to go by, though.

I wonder just how easy/difficult it will be for a random Jew or a dozen or a hundred of them to assassinate Hitler. This isn't 1919, after all.

Didn't say it would succeed, but people are stupid and do stupid things under stress.
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
A lot of people trying to take shots at Hitler.

A lot of people not only converting, but moving out of their hometowns afterward, and trying to forge completely new identities.

increased popularity of attempted trans-oceanic legal and illegal emigration and emigration to England, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal, Turkey, the USSR, and Palestine, as opposed to places like the Low Countries, Austria, Hungary, France and Poland that were popular with German Jews.

many, many more non German Jews trying to migrate or in the case of countries like France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, take jobs or assignments in the furthest colonies that will not be occupied.

Jewish MPs in all Germany’s neighbors voting for rearmament. Jewish voters voting for pro rearmament parties, and taking an exceptional interest in military/police training.

if their vision is detailed enough, Jews having a shot to make consistently better business and investment decisions in most free economies until economic trends get butterflied. May boost envy & resentment.

on emigration to Palestine, it wasn’t limited severely until later. There will be more of it, a lot more, at least for a year or two, until an early Arab revolt gets sparked. But the Arab revolts leadership will probably be complicated by a lightning round of Godfather-like assassinations of all known Arab revolt leaders and anti Zionist Arab Palestinian agitators in the mandate by Lehi and Irgun guys who see the future.

that would disorganize the immediate revolters, but enrage survivors. Also, I imagine it would be pretty much impossible for British police suspicion not to fall on Jews, and a probable clampdown on immigration that way.
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
A lot of people trying to take shots at Hitler.

A lot of people not only converting, but moving out of their hometowns afterward, and trying to forge completely new identities.

increased popularity of attempted trans-oceanic legal and illegal emigration and emigration to England, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal, Turkey, the USSR, and Palestine, as opposed to places like the Low Countries, Austria, Hungary, France and Poland that were popular with German Jews.

many, many more non German Jews trying to migrate or in the case of countries like France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, take jobs or assignments in the furthest colonies that will not be occupied.

Jewish MPs in all Germany’s neighbors voting for rearmament. Jewish voters voting for pro rearmament parties, and taking an exceptional interest in military/police training.

if their vision is detailed enough, Jews having a shot to make consistently better business and investment decisions in most free economies until economic trends get butterflied. May boost envy & resentment.

on emigration to Palestine, it wasn’t limited severely until later. There will be more of it, a lot more, at least for a year or two, until an early Arab revolt gets sparked. But the Arab revolts leadership will probably be complicated by a lightning round of Godfather-like assassinations of all known Arab revolt leaders and anti Zionist Arab Palestinian agitators in the mandate by Lehi and Irgun guys who see the future.

that would disorganize the immediate revolvers, but enrage survivors. Also, I imagine it would be pretty much impossible for British police suspicion not to fall on Jews, and a probable clampdown on immigration that way.

Excellent analysis, Rob! That said, though, in addition to everything that you suggested here, I'd also like to add Jews, including Eastern European Jews, moving to whatever distant colonies they can find even if they or their countries (such as Poland) have no relationship with these colonies. Even moving to the goddamn Congo is better than being murdered in the Holocaust, after all. And as for the Jews in the Soviet Union, either already in 1933 or who will end up there in 1939-1940, I expect that they would be absolutely desperate to move to the interior of the Soviet Union en masse--or, if that will fail, to get deported to gulags in the interior of the Soviet Union as their only way to escape getting harmed later on. AFAIK, most 1939 Polish Jews who survived the Holocaust were able to do so because they got deported to gulags in the interior of the Soviet Union, ironically enough. And of course once Operation Barbarossa will begin, there will be much more fleeing, but even that would be sub-optimal since not everyone who attempted to flee into the interior of the Soviet Union during Operation Barbarossa was actually able to do so--though over a million Soviet Jews were, in fact, successfully able to do this and thus survived the Holocaust. But Yeah, a much better and more optimal strategy would be to move to the interior of the Soviet Union before the start of Operation Barbarossa, if necessary, even by getting deported to a gulag there. A 20% risk of death as a result of a deportation to a gulag is much better than virtually guaranteed death in the Holocaust, after all.
 

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