Philosophy Antifascism is stupid (to the point of being evil)

Navarro

Well-known member
Can the left of today even define what 'fascism' is? Because as far as I can tell, whenever they're accusing anyone of being 'fash' they certainly don't mean the latter subscribe to a certain Italian totalitarian ideology with a protectionist & autarkic economic bent and an irredentist, warmongering foreign policy (along with, in general, a reverence for merciless violence which the present-day left also definitely exhibits).

Blame Georges Sorel. He completed Rousseau's political project of essentially inventing modern-day totalitarianism.

Well yes, that was what I was getting at. I'm sure calling oneself an 'antifascist' made sense if you were a militiaman of the Weimar-period Iron Front (which incidentally fought the KPD's street thugs on top of the brownshirts in their attempt to defend democracy, so it's hilarious that their Three Arrows symbol has been appropriated by the ideological descendants of the same people they thrashed on the regular).

It's forgotten these days that fascism is a branch of leftist-socialist ideology. The KPD not only had significant ideological crossover with the NSDAP and collaborated in bringing down the Weimar government, socialist/progressive writers and newspapers wrote the same puff pieces about Mussolini and Hitler that they did about Stalin. It was only after the war and the left couldn't cover up the crimes of fascism that they adopted a shift in rhetorical focus to argue that it had always been a right-wing ideology.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Blame Georges Sorel. He completed Rousseau's political project of essentially inventing modern-day totalitarianism.



It's forgotten these days that fascism is a branch of leftist-socialist ideology. The KPD not only had significant ideological crossover with the NSDAP and collaborated in bringing down the Weimar government, socialist/progressive writers and newspapers wrote the same puff pieces about Mussolini and Hitler that they did about Stalin. It was only after the war and the left could not cover up the crimes of fascism that they adopted a shift in rhetorical focus to argue that it had always been a right-wing ideology.

I read that spanish Falanga creator initially liked Stalin,Hitler and mussolini alike,then he decided that Stalin is bad,later decided the same about Hitler,and,in the end,he decided that Mussolini is not bad - but he would be better,and created Falanga.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
South American Fadcism has a weird fetish for Milton Friedmen and his views on economics.

Which probably makes it the most distinct sort of Fascism.
 

Free-Stater 101

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Fascism literally grew directly out of syndicalism, a branch of socialism.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that as it implies fascism to be a direct successor to syndicalism and that is more than misleading.

Fascism didn't branch off directly from any core socialist though, but rather was made from a weird hodgepodge of socialist ideologies that were the most popular to the masses. (Such as healthcare, social welfare, anti-smoking, anti-gun, ect.) They then discarded the remnants that weren't broadly popular (Open state enforced atheism, the abolition of private property, complete social redistribution through collectivization, ect) and adopted a pseudo, pretend to give a damn concerning traditionalism, religion and industrialism through capitalism.

Fascism is literally socialism in disguise, bar a few tenants, it tries to creep into your bed pretending to be on your side, when in actuality is doesn't give a hell about you or anything you stand for.
 
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Navarro

Well-known member
I wouldn't go as far as to say that as it implies fascism to be a direct successor to syndicalism and that is more than misleading.

Fascio was literally the Italian word for "trade union" at the time.

Fascism didn't branch off directly from any core socialist though, but rather was made from a weird hodgepodge of socialist ideologies that were the most popular to the masses. (Such as healthcare, social welfare, anti-smoking, anti-gun, ect.) They then discarded the remnants that weren't broadly popular (Open state enforced atheism, the abolition of private property, complete social redistribution through collectivization, ect) .

If we can look at how they historically acted, fascist groups in power did do things like de facto eliminate private property and collectivise agriculture. This is entirely logical since, as I said, fascism is a form of socialism. We even see the exact same Marxian myth that the totalitarian government will wither away once Da Revuhlooshun is complete. But fascism is, well, more honest about the means of its political program (which is evil and stupid regardless of said means) than most socialists go into. You won't find a single doctrine, policy or action of the NSDAP, for instance, that was outside of the socialist mainstream during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

and adopted a pseudo, pretend to give a damn concerning traditionalism, religion and industrialism through capitalism.

Fascism is literally socialism in disguise, bar a few tenants, it tries to creep into your bed pretending to be on your side, when in actuality is doesn't give a hell about you or anything you stand for.

Heh, one of the big Italian groups that eventually helped to make up the fascist party was literally called "the futurists".

I think one of the reasons the socialist nature of fascism isn't understood is that there were no fascist "revolutions" to speak of - fascist groups never had the strength to take power by main force (ironic given their obsession with the "purity" of violence, which they got together with the Bolsheviks from Sorel and the anarchists that plagued the late 19th century) and instead tricked weak conservative establishments into handing them the reins by making appeals to tradition and religion (which were all lies). There was no opportunity to start straight over with a relatively clean slate and hence purely as a result of the way they came into power and their relatively short lifespans they never got the chance to totally remake society into their nightmare vision of Real True Socialism. Just a different head of the hydra trying to swallow civilisation whole, in the end.
 
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Free-Stater 101

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Fascio was literally the Italian word for "trade union" at the time.
I know that. I mean that's less solely linked to Fascism than you imply. Yes, Fascist supported trade unions but it's primary motives were never orbiting unions. (Bottom line Fascism is that child syndicalism briefly fostered, related enough to retain some feature but not necessarily enough to exclaim itself to be syndicalism's heir without raising some eyebrows to the claim.
If we can look at how they historically acted, fascist groups in power did do things like de facto eliminate private property and collectivise agriculture. This is entirely logical since, as I said, fascism is a form of socialism. We even see the exact same Marxian myth that the totalitarian government will wither away once Da Revuhlooshun is complete. But fascism is, well, more honest about the means of its political program (which is evil and stupid regardless of said means) than most socialists go into. You won't find a single doctrine, policy or action of the NSDAP, for instance, that was outside of the socialist mainstream during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
I agree, Fascism has only ever been a front for socialism disguised as something else. It lulls conservatives and reactionaries in alike, with it's wild promises and yet only does so initially, before plowing everything over in it's own image.

Religion is the same, The Fascist starts off by saying the church and God should be respected and then slowly over time he enforces the state as 'church' and the head of state as 'God' there is no place for any other higher powers in a fascist society because the state is supposed to be the highest power.
 
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