America First Caucus Founded

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Oh no, no, @Bacle doesn't want the GOP to become conservative or anything like that. He wants it to become Demorats Lite, controlled opposition, a party that actively courts minorities and lgbt groups. Can't even crawl back to the actual democrats, nah, he gotta act like a colonizer.
The GOP is already controlled opposition; anyone who thinks otherwise is just buying into the tribalistic mindset of "us versus them" the establishment is trying to sell them. There is no "us"; just a bunch of people with wildly different expectations and desires looking to use everyone else as stepping stones on their way to their ideal society, while the rest just want to be left alone.

The Republicans had four years to convince me they were worth a damn; they failed. They are dead to me now, as well as everyone who still supports them.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
The GOP is already controlled opposition; anyone who thinks otherwise is just buying into the tribalistic mindset of "us versus them" the establishment is trying to sell them. There is no "us"; just a bunch of people with wildly different expectations and desires looking to use everyone else as stepping stones on their way to their ideal society, while the rest just want to be left alone.

I think this both misunderstands what controlled opposition would entail, and what the establishment is selling.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Libertarians are useless and only care about corporate profits, drugs, guns, gay sex and immigration.
... and religious liberty, and school choice, and non-adventurism, and civil rights, and free speech, and we can go on and on. At some point the word 'only' doesn't work.

The GOP is already controlled opposition; anyone who thinks otherwise is just buying into the tribalistic mindset of "us versus them" the establishment is trying to sell them. There is no "us"; just a bunch of people with wildly different expectations and desires looking to use everyone else as stepping stones on their way to their ideal society, while the rest just want to be left alone.

The Republicans had four years to convince me they were worth a damn; they failed. They are dead to me now, as well as everyone who still supports them.
Your two problems are thinking that the republicans are controlled any more than the democrats, or that there even is a controller (there never is), and that change actually comes from politics. Politics can stop change, but rarely causes it on purpose. The only thing that really matters in politics is the tax rate, war, and the supreme court. That's all they really have power on and are likely to do.

The biggest thing one can do is help with decentralization and work on the culture. Use lightweight tools that restore privacy and boost alt tech, for example. Encourage the ability to work from home. Teach someone to use a gun/get someone to go to the gun range with you, or just teach someone that socialism is evil by sharing a relevant movie (The Death of Stalin, anyone?).
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
and religious liberty
They tend to be more freedom from religion types and don’t recognize the social value of religion and some even hate the fact that America is Christian nation.


and school choice
Normal Republican position.


non-adventurism
Also America First position.

Libertarianism isn’t as bad as Neoconservatism, but it fails utterly when you have the large number who can’t recognize that private corporations right now are working very hard to crush free speech. Libertarians who don’t want to punish and curtail the current private industry of destroying free speech and really all that great on the issue of free speech. Also immigration. The Libertarians who want open borders are utter idiots.


The only thing that really matters in politics is the tax rate, war, and the supreme court. That's all they really have power on and are likely to do.
I’m sorry what? They have the power to and have enacted mass immigration to the United States, as just one example. What you’ve listed are just the top priorities of the terrible establishment Republicans. The goal is to make it so that those aren’t the only things that they try to do when they have power lol. That’s not all that matters in politics. That’s all that Neocons want out of politics. Democrats don’t want that and they actually use government to change the country, and America First seeks to do the same.
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Normal Republican position.
Yes, and? It's also a mainstream libertarian thing. The person I'm arguing against said there's few things we care about. I listed more.

Libertarians who don’t want to punish and curtail the current private industry of destroying free speech and really all that great on the issue of free speech.
The problem is that almost all government solutions to this violate free speech themselves, and will then be exploited by the side in power against the side already being persecuted. The solution is decentralization, which is already happening and speeding up because of the restrictions.

I’m sorry what?
Basically I'm saying politics is downstream of culture. Politics isn't the cause of most things, it's the end result after a lot of work. It's cultural power that moves it. I just listed the exceptions.
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
Basically I'm saying politics is downstream of culture. Politics isn't the cause of most things, it's the end result after a lot of work. It's cultural power that moves it. I just listed the exceptions.
Except when politics are used to import like a hundred million people with different culture over sixty years it’s probably gonna change the culture. It’s not downstream, it’s circular, and policies especially like that are going to change things. When politics can be used to draft the education legislature that indoctrinates your children to certain world view, it changes your culture. Culture can change politics and politics can change culture, and both can do a lot more than establishment Republican bullshit.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Probably the right idea. Whether an America First caucus is a good idea or not, it's poisoned by being Majorie Taylor Greene's idea, who believes in Jewish Space Lasers.

If I had to choose between some crazy soccer mom and your average cuckservative?

I'd pick the lunatic soccer mom...Hell I'd pick her if I was Jewish since I'd rather live in a powerful America that hasn't been raped by the Uniparty even if some of its leaders hate me then live in a country where Black separatist's can burn my business down and the state can cut my son's dick off against my will or I can be killed by a random Antifa crowd for being pro Israel..etc.

I like crazy...Crazy actually gets shit done. Sellouts, weaklings and graceful losers need to be thrown out of the party so we can actually fight the left and crush it.

No. It's called setting standards, and sticking to them regardless of who it is. It's a powerful position to be in. It doesn't matter what they say about her. What matters is what she does. And what she has does is enough to disqualify her.

Funny how the Republicans who believe in being the cultural stepfather are becoming a minority within their own party.

Fuck optics, start fighting back.

If your sworn opposition told you to not shove a fork into an electrical outlet, would you then think doing so is a good idea? If I then concurred, and pointed out the reasons why that would be a really stupid and dangerous thing to do, would that then make me one of them in your eyes?

I believe its the duty of every redblooded American to grab the nearest danger hair and force them to test that theory. 377906135971397634.png
 
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ShieldWife

Marchioness
What if Lex Luthor developed an easy way to mass produce kryptonite? Well, before long every super villain would have kryptonite armor, kryptonite weapons, bases made of kryptonite, bullets made of kryptonite, release kryptonite dust in air planes. Superman would be in trouble.

What is she blithering about, you may ask? Well accusations of racism are like Kryptonite to mainstream conservatives. No matter what goods arguments they may have, no matter how insane the left’s position my be, all that the leftists have to do is accuse them of being a racist or an anti-Semite and Republicans are rendered so weak that they can’t do anything but crawl on the ground and beg for mercy. Unlike kryptonite, which is a rare substance, such accusations of racism are unlimited in quantity and availability. So just as in my fanciful analogy above, where everything would be kryptonite if it was cheap and plentiful, Republicans face a world where everything is racism.

The very idea is preposterous that anything MTG said regarding the “lasers” was anti-Semitic. She mentioned Rothchilds, along with some companies and gentiles as well. Is any criticism of a Jewish person anti-Semitism? We can’t talk about Jeffrey Epstein now? Or George Soros? Or Karl Marx? Jews are disproportionately represented among the power players on the left, just as black people are over represented among street level misbehavior. It is impossible to address the left in any meaningful way without being at odds with some blacks or Jews.

If we melt into a puddle of goo when ever blacks or Jews are invoked, the right will be powerless - which in fact it is and will continue to be until we grow some balls and choose not to give those accusations such power over us.

Unlike Superman in the setting of my analogy above, conservatives have the choice over whether or not our kryptonite affects us. If we can’t make the choice to become immune to those accusations, then the organized right wil never be anything more than a joke, will never be anything more than the left’s controlled opposition.

Any figure on the right who has even a chance at truly opposing the left’s agenda will be called both a racist and an anti-Semite by the mainstream media. It happened with Donald Trump, before him it happened to Ron Paul, before him it happened to Pat Buchanan, and if anyone of substance runs in 2024 it will happen to him too.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I think this both misunderstands what controlled opposition would entail, and what the establishment is selling.
Your two problems are thinking that the republicans are controlled any more than the democrats, or that there even is a controller (there never is), and that change actually comes from politics. Politics can stop change, but rarely causes it on purpose. The only thing that really matters in politics is the tax rate, war, and the supreme court. That's all they really have power on and are likely to do.
It's not that the Republicans are being controlled; they are the controllers, alongside the Democrats. We're the ones being controlled, in as much as a loose coalition of power-hungry sociopaths can control a nation's people. When I say "controlled opposition" I'm pointing out that the Republicans are part of the same establishment as the Democrats; they just pretend to be on opposing sides so that people will get invested in one or the other, and not realize that they have to oppose both if they want things to actually improve.
 

LordSunhawk

Das BOOT (literally)
Owner
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
I will once again point out that anybody who is complaining about 'controlled opposition' or the like who, if an American Citizen and registered Republican, isn't currently or planning on becoming a Precinct Committeeman is simply blowing smoke and is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

You want things to change? You believe the GOP is useless? Then get in the damn arena and actually do something about it, rather than flap your gums on the internet.
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
I will once again point out that anybody who is complaining about 'controlled opposition' or the like who, if an American Citizen and registered Republican, isn't currently or planning on becoming a Precinct Committeeman is simply blowing smoke and is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

You want things to change? You believe the GOP is useless? Then get in the damn arena and actually do something about it, rather than flap your gums on the internet.
I am Fallout-man101 and I endorse this message.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
I will once again point out that anybody who is complaining about 'controlled opposition' or the like who, if an American Citizen and registered Republican, isn't currently or planning on becoming a Precinct Committeeman is simply blowing smoke and is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

You want things to change? You believe the GOP is useless? Then get in the damn arena and actually do something about it, rather than flap your gums on the internet.

"You don't have the right to complain unless you join the GOPe and try and fix it" my, how...indifferent to the 1A.

Granted, I agree whole heartedly more people should join other right wing parties instead of complaining about the GOPe. They should organize and join those of us who are actually trying to replace the GOP with a proper right wing party.
 
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LordSunhawk

Das BOOT (literally)
Owner
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
"You don't have the right to complain unless you join the GOPe and try and fix it" my, how...indifferent to the 1A.

Granted, I agree whole heartedly more people should join other right wing parties instead of complaining about the GOPe. They should organize and join those of us who are actually trying to replace the GOP with a proper right wing party.




FTFY.

IWD... where did I say you weren't allowed to complain? I'm just saying that I'm sick of hearing it from people who aren't willing to actually *do* anything about it. The fact of the matter is that in order to fix the GOP and make it into the party we want to have, we need to engage and actually act, not just talk.

Right now in Georgia, for example, grassroots Trump supporters have taken over the party apparatus, censored multiple officials including the Secretary of State, and are putting enormous pressure on the governor to get with the program. Here in AZ the McCain crowd had managed to force out the Tea Partiers from the party leadership (we'd taken it over for a while, but in 2018 they pushed back) next month we're going to be taking it back. In fact I'm going to be one of the new PCs.

If you want to change things, no matter what, talking about it doesn't do it. You need to pull up your sleeves and put in the actual work.

And I am going to ask you once, stop it with the garbage attacks on staff, I personally like you and enjoy reading your perspective, but you are really starting to push beyond what is acceptable.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Granted, I agree whole heartedly more people should join other right wing parties instead of complaining about the GOPe. They should organize and join those of us who are actually trying to replace the GOP with a proper right wing party.

I don't really think third parties is a viable path forward in a US context. Two party system is kind of locked in. Also, the biggest third party in the US is libertarians. I am not a libertarian obviously, and the best ways to push nationalist policies are obviously not going to be quite the same as libertarian ones. But (at least to me) the libertarians who choose to work either within the Republican party or for non-party political organizations which can then lobby Republicans are much, much more effective than the Libertarian Party.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
Back in 2007-2012 I was heavily involved in campaigning for Ron Paul. My husband and I helped create a university club for his supporters, we got together multiple times a week to wave signs or go door to door, and many of us (me included) became active in our local Republican Party. I was heavily involved in our county GOP as were many of us and even at that local level, our influence was limited very effectively even at the local level. Some of those people I knew in the Ron Paul Club (which later turned into a chapter of Young Americans for Liberty and eventually thoroughly corrupted by “libertarian” leftists) went on to try to make changes in the party on a national level. They could never make significant progress.

Those are my own experiences and the experiences of those who I know personally. Maybe others have better experiences with trying to change the GOP, maybe higher numbers were needed, maybe a post-Trump GOP would be better. I doubt it though. Even Trump with his huge popularity among the party base has been limited in his ability to make real change for the better and I think time will tell as the GOP party bosses are going to reassert themselves now that Trump is out of the picture and take precautions to keep another Trump from threatening their control over the party.

I don’t oppose becoming active in the GOP, maybe it can help or at least be educational about how parties operate, but I wouldn’t count on that to fix our country’s problem any more than I would count on voting to do so.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I will once again point out that anybody who is complaining about 'controlled opposition' or the like who, if an American Citizen and registered Republican, isn't currently or planning on becoming a Precinct Committeeman is simply blowing smoke and is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

You want things to change? You believe the GOP is useless? Then get in the damn arena and actually do something about it, rather than flap your gums on the internet.
I'm an unemployed autistic man in his mid-thirties; I've got no charisma, no experience, and, more importantly, no money or connections. "Flapping my gums" is all I've got. Besides; I'm not a registered Republican, and I never will be.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
I believe that a wide range of tactics, methods, and even organizations are needed, and will not countersignal anyone making an honest effort, either within or without the party.

But, outside of the Republican party, I'm not even sure what the real or hard right alternative is supposed to be in terms of something running candidates. Again, the most popular third party period, of any ideology is the Libertarian Party, and they're basically a bad joke that couldn't even crack 5%. The only one I'm aware of is the constitution party, and they don't really seem like they've got any momentum or any ability to capitalize. There's at least one organization I wouldn't speak ill of that calls itself a political party, but they don't run candidates and as far as I'm aware have no intention of doing so in the near future.

I think on the subject of the GOP, I think they will try to take increased precautions. However, I think the system is unstable in numerous ways, and one of the ways it's unstable is that the GOP is under a lot of pressure. As demographics shift, no matter how much they wish otherwise, the GOP leaders are simply not going to get vibrants to vote for them increasing proportions. Instead, the only way they maintain competitive nationally is by getting an increasing proportion of the White vote, which will probably happen anyway, as has in the past, as the White vote shifts red in order to keep the political system balanced, particularly among those who are economically moderate, anti-woke, and inclined toward social conservativism. This is a naturally volatile situation.

Additionally, diversity erodes competence, so the elites trying to manage this increasingly volatile situation and going to be increasingly not up the task and increasinly ideologically incapable of interacting with reality.
 

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