Alternate History Map Thread

[WolfBear]

A map of Europe on January 1, 1921 in a TL where there is no Bolshevik coup in Russia in 1917 and where Germany decides to fight on in 1919 and subsequently gets crushed and partitioned by the victorious Allies:

Feeble Constitution - A Red-and-Green Russia 1917 Timeline

Greece, under the leadership of Venizelos, on the other hand, is very much disposed to commit these resources. Venizelos has two very good years in 1919 and 1920, with much less Greek refugees to accommodate and much more EFP help in doing so, with his army encountering much less resistance in...

www.alternatehistory.com

A more detailed map of Germany in this TL:

Feeble Constitution - A Red-and-Green Russia 1917 Timeline

I can hardly wait the map!

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Aight, kinda tired but the jist is this; in 879 Tengri Oghuz Turks invade into India, they create a new Turkish Empire I shall refer to as Saigoan. Yada Yada cultural divergence yada yada Muslims are repelled from invading India yada yada.

 

[WolfBear]

Aight, kinda tired but the jist is this; in 879 Tengri Oghuz Turks invade into India, they create a new Turkish Empire I shall refer to as Saigoan. Yada Yada cultural divergence yada yada Muslims are repelled from invading India yada yada.

So, present-day Pakistan becomes Tengrist in this TL? What about Bangladesh?

 

[VictortheMonarch]

So, present-day Pakistan becomes Tengrist in this TL? What about Bangladesh?

I wouldn't say that, only that an Islamic hold over India is incredibly weakened, to the point that the Sultans likely never reach Bangladesh, not at least until the Mughal's appear, but even then unless they go full Ottoman "You WILL be Islamic" like with Albania, it's likely that Bangladesh and many other parts of India never have reasonably sized Islamic sects, and perhaps even Pakistan never existing, as my head cannon is that Saigoan would not be conquered until Tamerlane

 

[stevep]

I wouldn't say that, only that an Islamic hold over India is incredibly weakened, to the point that the Sultans likely never reach Bangladesh, not at least until the Mughal's appear, but even then unless they go full Ottoman "You WILL be Islamic" like with Albania, it's likely that Bangladesh and many other parts of India never have reasonably sized Islamic sects, and perhaps even Pakistan never existing, as my head cannon is that Saigoan would not be conquered until Tamerlane

Ouch that would be very bloody given how much of a religious fanatic Tamerlane was during his empire. [Although with a point of departure so early your likely to butterfly Genghis let alone Tamerlane - with possibly someone totally different playing similar roles sometime in the period.] Mind you such a disaster could mean than when his empire collapsed on his death the reaction in India is such that Islam is viewed as repulsive and unacceptable and hence there is a determination to resist any further Islamic incursions.

I would be doubtful that the state would stay Tengrist over such a long period as established states especially tend toward more centralised and formal religious systems so the empire could end up as Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist or something else. After all other Turkish tribes largely converted to Islam in central Asia in the centuries after the Muslim conquest of Iran.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Ouch that would be very bloody given how much of a religious fanatic Tamerlane was during his empire. [Although with a point of departure so early your likely to butterfly Genghis let alone Tamerlane - with possibly someone totally different playing similar roles sometime in the period.] Mind you such a disaster could mean than when his empire collapsed on his death the reaction in India is such that Islam is viewed as repulsive and unacceptable and hence there is a determination to resist any further Islamic incursions.

I would be doubtful that the state would stay Tengrist over such a long period as established states especially tend toward more centralised and formal religious systems so the empire could end up as Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist or something else. After all other Turkish tribes largely converted to Islam in central Asia in the centuries after the Muslim conquest of Iran.

Yeah, It is more my opinion that Tengrism would fade in India, maybe a small minority of the noble's holding to the faith, but much more likely you would see the Emperor (or in the made up Saigoan language, Imperaat) converting to Buddhism or Hinduism, which tends to be the general religion for the area. Who knows, maybe they would even go as far as to convert to Zhun?

 

[WolfBear]

Yeah, It is more my opinion that Tengrism would fade in India, maybe a small minority of the noble's holding to the faith, but much more likely you would see the Emperor (or in the made up Saigoan language, Imperaat) converting to Buddhism or Hinduism, which tends to be the general religion for the area. Who knows, maybe they would even go as far as to convert to Zhun?

Can you please elaborate on the Saigoan language part? As in, more details about it?

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Can you please elaborate on the Saigoan language part? As in, more details about it?

I am still mapping it together, I might upload it fully, or like most of my posts I'll leave it in my folder never to be seen again.

 

[stevep]

Can you please elaborate on the Saigoan language part? As in, more details about it?

Some interesting stuff here. Don't know enough to quote on a few of them but
a) With the greater Rhodesia map how come so much of the population in S Rhodesia is nearly half European? It was a lot smaller at all stages OTL - only about 5-10% IIRC - and if its been subsumed into the neighbouring states making up a larger Rhodesian state after a brutal war which destroyed the white break-away government I would have suspected most of the remaining white would have fled.

b) Does the Anglo-Dutch America mean that the two powers are unified under a common government - or at least monarch say - and dominating N America or that their two rival states who have effectively partitioned N America between them?

Similarly does the smaller Germany mean that the Netherlands now include most of western Germany.

c) The British Patagonia TL looks interesting. Does it come from a successful occupation of Spanish Argentina in 1806-07 or some other PoD? Interesting that a Germany than looks very much like Weimar Germany is described as "Big Germany but not half of Europe"?

 

[WolfBear]

Some interesting stuff here. Don't know enough to quote on a few of them but
a) With the greater Rhodesia map how come so much of the population in S Rhodesia is nearly half European? It was a lot smaller at all stages OTL - only about 5-10% IIRC - and if its been subsumed into the neighbouring states making up a larger Rhodesian state after a brutal war which destroyed the white break-away government I would have suspected most of the remaining white would have fled.

b) Does the Anglo-Dutch America mean that the two powers are unified under a common government - or at least monarch say - and dominating N America or that their two rival states who have effectively partitioned N America between them?

Similarly does the smaller Germany mean that the Netherlands now include most of western Germany.

c) The British Patagonia TL looks interesting. Does it come from a successful occupation of Spanish Argentina in 1806-07 or some other PoD? Interesting that a Germany than looks very much like Weimar Germany is described as "Big Germany but not half of Europe"?

I wish that I could answer these questions, Steve, but unfortunately I myself did not make these maps and thus I don't have much of a clue here. I think that it would be better for you to create a Reddit account and directly ask the creators of these maps about this, if necessary via PM. I'm sorry that I couldn't help you out more here, Steve.

 

[WolfBear]

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Christian Demonyms in Ireland, 1999.

This is pretty much how I see my latest CK3 game ending up if it follow's historical precedence, as at the end of the game my Catholic English neighbors were already at my doorstep in my TALL Orthodox Ireland.

 

[WolfBear]

 

[stevep]

I wish that I could answer these questions, Steve, but unfortunately I myself did not make these maps and thus I don't have much of a clue here. I think that it would be better for you to create a Reddit account and directly ask the creators of these maps about this, if necessary via PM. I'm sorry that I couldn't help you out more here, Steve.

OK no problem. Sorry I just assumed they were your maps.

 

[Skallagrim]

OK no problem. Sorry I just assumed they were your maps.

But Steve, this isn't AH.com, where even if you post a direct link to the original post, you still get an overzealous butthurt mod asking obnoxious questions in ALL CAPS right away.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

But Steve, this isn't AH.com, where even if you post a direct link to the original post, you still get an overzealous butthurt mod asking obnoxious questions in ALL CAPS right away.

That's why I blatantly REFUSE to go back to AH. While it is rather easy to bypass their IP bans, the mods there don't make it worth it. I solemnly swear to never touch that shitshow in search of a good story ever again, mod's are the mods basic ass Californian communist I have ever seen. Hell, a few were even Anti-fa

 

[Skallagrim]

I don't even know what those guys are like politically, I just know they're power-tripping weirdos.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

I don't even know what those guys are like politically, I just know they're power-tripping weirdos.

Yeah, I'm not pointing fingers at which one, as some are generally nice dudes, but some of them are Anti-fa, and also appear to be violent felons.

 

[Eparkhos]

But Steve, this isn't AH.com, where even if you post a direct link to the original post, you still get an overzealous butthurt mod asking obnoxious questions in ALL CAPS right away.

DID YOU JUST FUCKING POST FOUR IMAGES IN 24 HOURS????!!!!!!!!

Kicked for a week, and be thankful I haven't banned you.

 

[WolfBear]

DID YOU JUST FUCKING POST FOUR IMAGES IN 24 HOURS????!!!!!!!!

Kicked for a week, and be thankful I haven't banned you.

Yeah, I certainly dislike the totalitarianism and dislike of alternative viewpoints on alternatehistory.com. Cite this article by respected intelligence researcher Richard Haier, get banned right afterwards:

No Voice at VOX: Sense and Nonsense about Discussing IQ and Race

We know that genes are not necessarily deterministic. They are probabilistic and we are learning how to change genes and their functional expression.

quillette.com