Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
'AHC: More Landslide US Presidential Elections Post-2000'.

Sure, Obama '08 may have won handily in both counts, but I wouldn't call that a landslide anywhere near FDR '36, Nixon '72, Reagan '84, or even Bush '88.
Reagan was the last incumbent to win by double digits.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Reagan was the last incumbent to win by double digits.

Yes, but Bush ’88 was the last to win over 400 electoral votes.

Besides, I didn’t bring up my POD to discuss OTL landslides. I brought it up, so that we could come up with ways to have more landslides after 2000 — which are notably absent IOTL.
 

TheRomanSlayer

Unipolarity is for Subhuman Trogdolytes
Anyway, ‘ATL Cuisine And Culinary Practices’.

Compared to war, culture, and geopolitics, food and food preparation tends to be overlooked in AH circles. That said, butterflies would no doubt apply to food, too, thanks to differences in tastes, recipes, and ingredients depending on supply chains and what’s locally available.
If Spain had acquired a trading port in China along similar lines to how Portugal acquired Macau, you could definitely see a melding of Spanish and Chinese cuisine. Not sure what popular Spanish food was famous in their colonial days, but say, you could also have a different kind of Spanish cuisine that adopts certain Chinese cooking practices, then we are talking about a different culinary tradition being formed.

Imagine a global culinary tradition if the Portuguese never invented deep frying. How would that have an effect on the health of all of humanity.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Ba'athist Iraq Survives To The Present'.

Obviously, this assumes no Iraq War as a start. Even if he remains in power, though, Saddam's age would catch up to him and might result in a succession crisis once he croaks, considering how ferocious his sons were and what tends to happen anyway whenever the top guy leaves.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Ba'athist regime in Syria survived the death of Hafez al Assad and his eldest son, not to mention the uncivil war since 2011. It's possible there would be a bit of succession struggle after Sadams death, however nobody but his closest toadies wanted that schizo Uday as a ruler. With strong oppression apparatus and oil income an authoritarian regime can last a long time.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Ba'athist regime in Syria survived the death of Hafez al Assad and his eldest son, not to mention the uncivil war since 2011. It's possible there would be a bit of succession struggle after Sadams death, however nobody but his closest toadies wanted that schizo Uday as a ruler. With strong oppression apparatus and oil income an authoritarian regime can last a long time.

Guess Qusay is the default heir, then?

If so, that'd make the most sense, seeing as Uday was basically "Pol Pot waiting to happen!", to paraphrase an AH.com post I came across once. In which case, wouldn't surprise me if he joined his father in the grave shortly thereafter, while the much saner (but still brutal) Qusay succeeds their father as President of Iraq with the blessing of Saddam's other loyalists.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
‘Ba'athist Iraq Survives To The Present'.

Obviously, this assumes no Iraq War as a start. Even if he remains in power, though, Saddam's age would catch up to him and might result in a succession crisis once he croaks, considering how ferocious his sons were and what tends to happen anyway whenever the top guy leaves.

Best POD is actually that Uday dies early on, before he can fuck up so much. He single-handedly caused two rifts in the family with his bullshit. And recall, Bashar al-Assad also had an older brother who predeceased their father. Said brother (Bassel) was, like Uday, a it of a wild character. (Although, unlike Uday, not a sadistic psychopath -- at least not to my knowledge.) Bashar al-Assad was, like Qusay, the younger brother, less charismatic, and nor properly prepared to be heir at that time.

If Uday dies in a timely manner, the Saddam can start prepping Qusay as heir, much as Hafez started prepping Bashar as heir in Syria after Bassel died young. Without the family feuds caused by Uday's scheming and paranoia, the potential for a stable succession is there.

You'd have to butterfly it so that Gore wins in 2000, though. Assuming 9/11 still happens, you'll still see American intervention in Afghanistan, but without Bush and his Neocon inner circle, a new invasion of Iraq is far less likely. So then Qusay stands to inherit the country in due time.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
‘Ba'athist Iraq Survives To The Present'.

Obviously, this assumes no Iraq War as a start. Even if he remains in power, though, Saddam's age would catch up to him and might result in a succession crisis once he croaks, considering how ferocious his sons were and what tends to happen anyway whenever the top guy leaves.
Best POD is actually that Uday dies early on, before he can fuck up so much. He single-handedly caused two rifts in the family with his bullshit. And recall, Bashar al-Assad also had an older brother who predeceased their father. Said brother (Bassel) was, like Uday, a it of a wild character. (Although, unlike Uday, not a sadistic psychopath -- at least not to my knowledge.) Bashar al-Assad was, like Qusay, the younger brother, less charismatic, and nor properly prepared to be heir at that time.

If Uday dies in a timely manner, the Saddam can start prepping Qusay as heir, much as Hafez started prepping Bashar as heir in Syria after Bassel died young. Without the family feuds caused by Uday's scheming and paranoia, the potential for a stable succession is there.

You'd have to butterfly it so that Gore wins in 2000, though. Assuming 9/11 still happens, you'll still see American intervention in Afghanistan, but without Bush and his Neocon inner circle, a new invasion of Iraq is far less likely. So then Qusay stands to inherit the country in due time.

I am not an expert (unless you count with having/knowing/dating people from MENa) but I will try to use a DND metric : to the best of my knowledge Bassel was neutral , Uday was chaotic evil. The primary source would be my Syrian-Armenian friend from Aleppo that has lived under Assad until he moved to Europe with a scholarship.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
ANYWAY, here's a scenario I would like to work on, even if briefly. Or just in map form.

What could be be the outcome of a Bulgarian who wins the 2nd Balkan War and still joins the Central Powers & Also The Netherlands Joins The Central Powers?

In my personal opinion, we could see the Germanophile king of Greece turning against Berlin and same could be for the Ottomans and being on the Entente side I am unsure if the Empire could survive for the switch to happen. I am pretty sure there is a likelihood of the Arab Revolt not happening because I don't see Berlin managing to help potential revolters as it happened in our world, unless I am missing something that would encourage an ITTL German-backed Arab Revolt. I could see the Bulgarians managing to occupy Serbia and Greece even harder than our world , I do not know how they would fair against the Porte.

ALSO, bonus for this scenario would be the Netherlands joining the fight with AH and Germany.

I still an Entente to be likely, just it would look weirder than our world. Turkey/Ottoman and Greece would be awkardly staring at each other as they recover/partition Bulgaria. Britain likely gets all of the Dutch East Indies. Russia/USSR and Japan stay an enigma. Italy could get all the lands promised MAYBE in the Treaty of London.

I do not think this would prevent Mussolini, Dolfuss, Horthy and Hitler in my opinion.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
‘Nazi Analogues In A Central Powers Victory TL?’.

Besides Imperial Germany still being nasty in the east (despite butterflying OG Nazis), I imagine the Ottomans will continue their own genocides. Might take a bit more of everything going horribly astray to make them reach “Holy CP Hitler, Batman!” levels of mass-murderous, but the groundwork for atrocities that could escalate to that point is still there.
 
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gral

Well-known member
You'd have to butterfly it so that Gore wins in 2000, though. Assuming 9/11 still happens, you'll still see American intervention in Afghanistan, but without Bush and his Neocon inner circle, a new invasion of Iraq is far less likely. So then Qusay stands to inherit the country in due time.
Less likely, sure. Far less likely? That depends on you definition of 'far less likely', I suppose. There was much bipartisan support for taking out Saddam and his gang, in large part due to Saddam playing 'I'm Not Touching You' games and the fact that there was Democrat sympathy to the neocon foreign agenda.
 

Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
Guess Qusay is the default heir, then?

If so, that'd make the most sense, seeing as Uday was basically "Pol Pot waiting to happen!", to paraphrase an AH.com post I came across once. In which case, wouldn't surprise me if he joined his father in the grave shortly thereafter, while the much saner (but still brutal) Qusay succeeds their father as President of Iraq with the blessing of Saddam's other loyalists.
Uday was a fucking psychopath! I'm assuming you've watched that movie about how he got somebody to impersonate him? Forgot the name of that movie.
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
Uday was a fucking psychopath! I'm assuming you've watched that movie about how he got somebody to impersonate him? Forgot the name of that movie.
I believe you’re thinking of The Devil’s Double, which is just as terrifying as it sounds. :devilish:
That movie is a guilty pleasure of mine. It is likely shite but it is very watchable in my opinion.

Dankula did a video on him
 

Buba

A total creep
‘1991 Ukraine To 1941’.
When in '41 - the scale of the "fun factor" depends upon the exact date.

I expect nukes to fly and Berlin to be glassed.

Ukraine inherited about 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 nuclear warheads remained on Ukrainian territory.[3]

Somebody - possibly even several somebodies - are very, very fucked.
 

ATP

Well-known member
‘1991 Ukraine To 1941’.
@Buba asked right question - when in 41? before,or after german backstabbed their ally? and remember,that soviet planned to attack germans,too.
Only difference - bulk of sralin armies were on Ukraine,so they would go to 1991.When bulk of german armies was on Belaruss.
Soviets in 1941 are crippled,germans - not so.

About flying nukes - if they have codes,they could use it.But,i read,that codes were still in Moscov.
If that was true,Ukraie could not use them.

So,we have 2 scenarios:
1.They use nukes and wipe out Berlin and few other german cities.Hitler HQ in Prussia,too.End of war,and then what? they would not agree to serve Sralin.
Most likely - they become European superpower,becouse sralin would widraw from his conqests.

2.They could not use nukes - but,still stop germans,and ,as more reliable ally then sralin,get Lend- Lease instead.
In long turn,the some oucome.Themwhat would happen in 1991? soviets on Ukraine would have armies prepered to attack germans.
What would they do? and what other countries would do? invade soviet Ukraine ?
 

Buba

A total creep
Speaking of codes for the nukes - is it possible to write new ones in Ukraine and how long would it take?
 

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