Alternate History A New Predatory Creature arrives in Eurasia.

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
In this scenario in the year 1,000 BC a new kind of creature appears in Eurasia. It is a very large species of Arthropod. They are giant Caterpillar type creatures.

The Death Worm:
Length: 10ft
Height 2ft
Width: 2.5ft
Weight: 300lbs
Speed: 15 Mph Max Speed
Jump: Can jump 10ft high in a single bound.
Defenses: venomous bite and poisonous spines on back
Biology: Warm Blooded, Omnivore.
Intelligence: Same as a Raven

The Death Worm first appears in Ancient China. Where they reek havoc on that nation. Killing and Eating animals, people and plant life alike. They are slowly heading west and south on the Eurasian landmass. News of these beast has traveled as far as Ancient Greece. Where ever these creatures go they leave death and destruction in their wake. The only known way to kill the Death Worms is by using a combination of Sulphur, Saltpeter and Charcoal to blow them up. And that was discovered on accident. The Death Worms skin is impervious to bronze weapons and resistant to iron weapons. They also can't survive in Arctic conditions. Currently the Death Worms are crossing the Eurasian Stepe heading towards Europe and the Middle East. They have no way of reaching the Americas Australia or Japan. How does this new creature affect human history from this point forward? Will some ancient civilizations fall?
 

stevep

Well-known member
In this scenario in the year 1,000 BC a new kind of creature appears in Eurasia. It is a very large species of Arthropod. They are giant Caterpillar type creatures.

The Death Worm:
Length: 10ft
Height 2ft
Width: 2.5ft
Weight: 300lbs
Speed: 15 Mph Max Speed
Jump: Can jump 10ft high in a single bound.
Defenses: venomous bite and poisonous spines on back
Biology: Warm Blooded, Omnivore.
Intelligence: Same as a Raven

The Death Worm first appears in Ancient China. Where they reek havoc on that nation. Killing and Eating animals, people and plant life alike. They are slowly heading west and south on the Eurasian landmass. News of these beast has traveled as far as Ancient Greece. Where ever these creatures go they leave death and destruction in their wake. The only known way to kill the Death Worms is by using a combination of Sulphur, Saltpeter and Charcoal to blow them up. And that was discovered on accident. The Death Worms skin is impervious to bronze weapons and resistant to iron weapons. They also can't survive in Arctic conditions. Currently the Death Worms are crossing the Eurasian Stepe heading towards Europe and the Middle East. They have no way of reaching the Americas Australia or Japan. How does this new creature affect human history from this point forward? Will some ancient civilizations fall?

In 1,000BC would there be the necessary metallurgy for producing canon's at that date? If not doubtful to see how they could be stopped in the field. If they can't burrow then defensive walls could protect cities and possibly some peninsulas as well as islands. Otherwise and unless they eat themselves out of existence I think the mainland, including possibly most/all of Africa is also a goner.

The other options might be in some weakness in their life cycles. For instance could the be poisoned themselves or are their eggs/lave/young distinctly more vulnerable. Plus given their predators of that size they might be very slow breeding and limited in numbers. A lot would depend on their physiology.
 

ATP

Well-known member
In this scenario in the year 1,000 BC a new kind of creature appears in Eurasia. It is a very large species of Arthropod. They are giant Caterpillar type creatures.

The Death Worm:
Length: 10ft
Height 2ft
Width: 2.5ft
Weight: 300lbs
Speed: 15 Mph Max Speed
Jump: Can jump 10ft high in a single bound.
Defenses: venomous bite and poisonous spines on back
Biology: Warm Blooded, Omnivore.
Intelligence: Same as a Raven

The Death Worm first appears in Ancient China. Where they reek havoc on that nation. Killing and Eating animals, people and plant life alike. They are slowly heading west and south on the Eurasian landmass. News of these beast has traveled as far as Ancient Greece. Where ever these creatures go they leave death and destruction in their wake. The only known way to kill the Death Worms is by using a combination of Sulphur, Saltpeter and Charcoal to blow them up. And that was discovered on accident. The Death Worms skin is impervious to bronze weapons and resistant to iron weapons. They also can't survive in Arctic conditions. Currently the Death Worms are crossing the Eurasian Stepe heading towards Europe and the Middle East. They have no way of reaching the Americas Australia or Japan. How does this new creature affect human history from this point forward? Will some ancient civilizations fall?
Since 1000BC at least phoenicians knew about America,some would run there.
Otherwise,Europe,Asia and Africa are lost to them.
China would survive in Japan,where local culture never arise.They would eventually find Australia,and North America/Kuro-sivo/
Americas - phoenicians,maybe greek and egyptians,too.

Interesting world,when most people would be indians - even if they follow other cultures.
Since they all would try to discover sometching to kil worms,we would have technical development there,too.
Maybe steam era from,let say,100AD?
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
In 1,000BC would there be the necessary metallurgy for producing canon's at that date? If not doubtful to see how they could be stopped in the field. If they can't burrow then defensive walls could protect cities and possibly some peninsulas as well as islands. Otherwise and unless they eat themselves out of existence I think the mainland, including possibly most/all of Africa is also a goner.

The other options might be in some weakness in their life cycles. For instance could the be poisoned themselves or are their eggs/lave/young distinctly more vulnerable. Plus given their predators of that size they might be very slow breeding and limited in numbers. A lot would depend on their physiology.
I don't think cannons would be a thing yet. But crude explosives would be a definite thing. And the Death Worms can't burrow And they can't climb sheer surfaces like walls. When all else fails Fire is always an option.

Since 1000BC at least phoenicians knew about America,some would run there.
Otherwise,Europe,Asia and Africa are lost to them.
China would survive in Japan,where local culture never arise.They would eventually find Australia,and North America/Kuro-sivo/
Americas - phoenicians,maybe greek and egyptians,too.

Interesting world,when most people would be indians - even if they follow other cultures.
Since they all would try to discover sometching to kil worms,we would have technical development there,too.
Maybe steam era from,let say,100AD?
Yeah a lot of people who have boats will be making haste for islands and eventually the Americas.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
I don't think cannons would be a thing yet. But crude explosives would be a definite thing. And the Death Worms can't burrow And they can't climb sheer surfaces like walls. When all else fails Fire is always an option.


Yeah a lot of people who have boats will be making haste for islands and eventually the Americas.
And refugees from China would take Japan,Sumatra,Java and Australia.
North America using kuro-sivo,too.

And maybe central,too? i remember some theory about Olmeks being chineese....which do not explain why they made african heads from stone,thought.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Just to note that while the Phenicans were about by 1,000BC it wasn't until a century or two later that they founded Carthage so its doubtful that - if they ever knew of the Americas - they would before then,
 

ATP

Well-known member
Just to note that while the Phenicans were about by 1,000BC it wasn't until a century or two later that they founded Carthage so its doubtful that - if they ever knew of the Americas - they would before then,
There were writing in some cave who suggested that in Central America.
They certainly have ships capable of doing so - and discover Americas fore real in this TL,even if they never did it in OTL.

Besides,England and Ireland would survive,too.And people from there would go to Iceland,Greenland and then Canada.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
The Death Worms skin is impervious to bronze weapons and resistant to iron weapons.
Err... OK, gonna be that guy...

Bronze and Iron weapons are not that different in hardness nor the sharpness of the edge they can hold. In point of fact, Iron is arguably inferior to Bronze as a material for weapons since it rusts and tends to shatter rather than simply bend when damaged or used against something harder than it (a bent Bronze weapon can easily be repaired while a shattered Iron weapon needs to be completely reforged). As far as usability Iron is strictly worse than Bronze too, the big importance for Iron is that learning to work with it is the gateway to Steel which IS superior to Bronze for weapon development but in 1000 BC I think the only Steel in existence is the rare "Meteoric Iron" (as an aside, this is where the trope of "magical meteorite iron" comes from, as basically in this era if you had a weapon that was made of Meteoric Iron you basically had a Steel sword before the concept of Steel was even a thing and Steel's properties were such it seemed magical.

Basically if Bronze is entirely ineffective Iron should be as well. Or both are only marginally useful.

So, other things to consider: how much food do these creature need to consume. If it's a considerable amount, they're going to have trouble crossing the Eurasian Steppe (though, I do recognize that's where you'd drawing these critters from mythologically), as you have them originating in China (where all the worst plagues upon the world tend to originate from*) that implies they have a fairly high nutritional intake requirement. So the question is how fast do they spread? Further the question of if the knowledge of black powder developed in China can get across the Silk Road BEFORE these creatures start to show up in the Western regions.

The immediate changes are significant though. Given their being endemic to China it is likely China ends up VERY different culturally and politically. One of the chief responsibilities of government there will be in hunting and killing these creatures and it will hinder the growth of Chinese philosophy as there will simply be less people and prosperity to allow for thinkers to actually be a thing. The long term effects of this means that East Asia would be fundamentally different down to its roots than the modern world and likely unrecognizable (this means that Japan too, while not having to deal with these creatures, is ALSO unrecognizable considering how much culture, philosophy, and religion they drew from China).

Another major factor involved in their spread is going to be their resistance to cold (you seem to imply that they are not highly resistant to it as you mention them spreading south and west from China, but not North into Siberia which has a lot of biomass for them to eat even if lower population dense of humans).

Folks here saying that the Chinese will flee to Japan and survive there. No they won't. There is no China, not as anything recognizable. In 1000 BC the Zhou dynasty had barely been formed, and what we recognize as cultural and philosophical China would not exist for around another 500 years. Further the Zhou were not a seafaring nation, barely controlling any of the coast of China and were mainly located in north-central China. As such they won't be successfully fleeing to Japan, which will remain under the control of the Jomon. Heck IRL the first Chinese influences settlers to Japan, which were from Korea, did not show up until 900 BC anyway.

The further information concerning the lack of ability to burrow and climb actually means mountains are going to be a considerable impediment to their spread. What this truly means is that humans will retreat into the mountains and turn them into fortifications, leaving valleys and plains to the worms. This means that there will be many holdout city-states throughout mountainous regions, and it's potential that the entire Tibetan plateau might go generations before they get invaded. They will also have trouble entering the Middle East, due to the geography of Asia (and as they originate in China, there's a good chance they won't be adapted well to the heat and lack of water in the deserts, thus further slowing their progress into Africa). However, Northern Europe is generally screwed. There's no major obstacles between western China and northern Europe, as they're basically the two ends of the Great Eurasian Steppe, which is basically the natural environment for these creatures. Southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece will actually be somewhat protected from them due to the mountains slowing down their spread there, as well as Iberia (though France is screwed). Ironically, I have my doubts about these creatures being able to infest Africa, as there's no good migration route from Asia into Africa for them. You have the mountains slowing them into the Middle East combined with the desert there and the Med forming a major barrier to entry from Europe. Even if they manage to get into North Africa, the Sahara Desert is basically an impassible barrier for them and Ethiopia is again on a major plateau that will prove difficult for them to infest, thus making the eastern route south difficult.

I imagine they eventually would get into Central Africa and likely overrun things there, but it will take a while.

Meanwhile humans will be basically driven into the mountains for protection from these creatures, and cities will generally always be walled or built on high areas surrounded by cliffs. This is actually advantageous for humans to retreat to as these mountains often have mineral wealth needed to eventually build the weapons needed to kill these things. You'll likely see the development of the long, horse mounted lance earlier here, as even if it's only tipped in Bronze the sheer force imparted by a lance driven by a horse and rider, or potentially a team of horses and chariot, is likely more than sufficient to pierce the hide of these creatures (and if it isn't, no early firearms would be able to pierce its hide either, Lances hit harder than MODERN firearms, to say nothing of pre-modern ones**). Wermhunters will be a major heroic profession amoung the population, likely sponsored by cities and rulers to keep regions near cities free from major infestations.

-------------
* No, seriously, historically as far as we can tell Plague originated in China, and there's a good chance other major pandemics did too, most recently being Covid-19, but that's just the most recent in a long list...

** No, I'm not kidding. F=MA and while the A is lower here you're dealing with a much more massive M. The Force behind a lance is roughly equal to the mass of the horse+rider+kit so you're looking at an easy 1,000 kg (around 2.2 tons) moving at, say, 4.5 m/s (around 10 MPH which is slow for a charging horse) and ending up with 4500 Joules of Force... for comparison the 30-.06 round at most has ~4100 Joules of Force. And the force is concentrated into a similarly small (arguably the Lance might put that force into a SMALLER area than most bullets).
 

ATP

Well-known member
Err... OK, gonna be that guy...

Bronze and Iron weapons are not that different in hardness nor the sharpness of the edge they can hold. In point of fact, Iron is arguably inferior to Bronze as a material for weapons since it rusts and tends to shatter rather than simply bend when damaged or used against something harder than it (a bent Bronze weapon can easily be repaired while a shattered Iron weapon needs to be completely reforged). As far as usability Iron is strictly worse than Bronze too, the big importance for Iron is that learning to work with it is the gateway to Steel which IS superior to Bronze for weapon development but in 1000 BC I think the only Steel in existence is the rare "Meteoric Iron" (as an aside, this is where the trope of "magical meteorite iron" comes from, as basically in this era if you had a weapon that was made of Meteoric Iron you basically had a Steel sword before the concept of Steel was even a thing and Steel's properties were such it seemed magical.

Basically if Bronze is entirely ineffective Iron should be as well. Or both are only marginally useful.

So, other things to consider: how much food do these creature need to consume. If it's a considerable amount, they're going to have trouble crossing the Eurasian Steppe (though, I do recognize that's where you'd drawing these critters from mythologically), as you have them originating in China (where all the worst plagues upon the world tend to originate from*) that implies they have a fairly high nutritional intake requirement. So the question is how fast do they spread? Further the question of if the knowledge of black powder developed in China can get across the Silk Road BEFORE these creatures start to show up in the Western regions.

The immediate changes are significant though. Given their being endemic to China it is likely China ends up VERY different culturally and politically. One of the chief responsibilities of government there will be in hunting and killing these creatures and it will hinder the growth of Chinese philosophy as there will simply be less people and prosperity to allow for thinkers to actually be a thing. The long term effects of this means that East Asia would be fundamentally different down to its roots than the modern world and likely unrecognizable (this means that Japan too, while not having to deal with these creatures, is ALSO unrecognizable considering how much culture, philosophy, and religion they drew from China).

Another major factor involved in their spread is going to be their resistance to cold (you seem to imply that they are not highly resistant to it as you mention them spreading south and west from China, but not North into Siberia which has a lot of biomass for them to eat even if lower population dense of humans).

Folks here saying that the Chinese will flee to Japan and survive there. No they won't. There is no China, not as anything recognizable. In 1000 BC the Zhou dynasty had barely been formed, and what we recognize as cultural and philosophical China would not exist for around another 500 years. Further the Zhou were not a seafaring nation, barely controlling any of the coast of China and were mainly located in north-central China. As such they won't be successfully fleeing to Japan, which will remain under the control of the Jomon. Heck IRL the first Chinese influences settlers to Japan, which were from Korea, did not show up until 900 BC anyway.

The further information concerning the lack of ability to burrow and climb actually means mountains are going to be a considerable impediment to their spread. What this truly means is that humans will retreat into the mountains and turn them into fortifications, leaving valleys and plains to the worms. This means that there will be many holdout city-states throughout mountainous regions, and it's potential that the entire Tibetan plateau might go generations before they get invaded. They will also have trouble entering the Middle East, due to the geography of Asia (and as they originate in China, there's a good chance they won't be adapted well to the heat and lack of water in the deserts, thus further slowing their progress into Africa). However, Northern Europe is generally screwed. There's no major obstacles between western China and northern Europe, as they're basically the two ends of the Great Eurasian Steppe, which is basically the natural environment for these creatures. Southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece will actually be somewhat protected from them due to the mountains slowing down their spread there, as well as Iberia (though France is screwed). Ironically, I have my doubts about these creatures being able to infest Africa, as there's no good migration route from Asia into Africa for them. You have the mountains slowing them into the Middle East combined with the desert there and the Med forming a major barrier to entry from Europe. Even if they manage to get into North Africa, the Sahara Desert is basically an impassible barrier for them and Ethiopia is again on a major plateau that will prove difficult for them to infest, thus making the eastern route south difficult.

I imagine they eventually would get into Central Africa and likely overrun things there, but it will take a while.

Meanwhile humans will be basically driven into the mountains for protection from these creatures, and cities will generally always be walled or built on high areas surrounded by cliffs. This is actually advantageous for humans to retreat to as these mountains often have mineral wealth needed to eventually build the weapons needed to kill these things. You'll likely see the development of the long, horse mounted lance earlier here, as even if it's only tipped in Bronze the sheer force imparted by a lance driven by a horse and rider, or potentially a team of horses and chariot, is likely more than sufficient to pierce the hide of these creatures (and if it isn't, no early firearms would be able to pierce its hide either, Lances hit harder than MODERN firearms, to say nothing of pre-modern ones**). Wermhunters will be a major heroic profession amoung the population, likely sponsored by cities and rulers to keep regions near cities free from major infestations.

-------------
* No, seriously, historically as far as we can tell Plague originated in China, and there's a good chance other major pandemics did too, most recently being Covid-19, but that's just the most recent in a long list...

** No, I'm not kidding. F=MA and while the A is lower here you're dealing with a much more massive M. The Force behind a lance is roughly equal to the mass of the horse+rider+kit so you're looking at an easy 1,000 kg (around 2.2 tons) moving at, say, 4.5 m/s (around 10 MPH which is slow for a charging horse) and ending up with 4500 Joules of Force... for comparison the 30-.06 round at most has ~4100 Joules of Force. And the force is concentrated into a similarly small (arguably the Lance might put that force into a SMALLER area than most bullets).
Mostly agree.I forget about Mountains,and China culture was not created yet.
But,they still could run to Taiwan and Hainan.

Bronze - agree.
And,not only spears for riders,but also bolts for some kind of ballista,which should be invented there.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Err... OK, gonna be that guy...

Bronze and Iron weapons are not that different in hardness nor the sharpness of the edge they can hold. In point of fact, Iron is arguably inferior to Bronze as a material for weapons since it rusts and tends to shatter rather than simply bend when damaged or used against something harder than it (a bent Bronze weapon can easily be repaired while a shattered Iron weapon needs to be completely reforged). As far as usability Iron is strictly worse than Bronze too, the big importance for Iron is that learning to work with it is the gateway to Steel which IS superior to Bronze for weapon development but in 1000 BC I think the only Steel in existence is the rare "Meteoric Iron" (as an aside, this is where the trope of "magical meteorite iron" comes from, as basically in this era if you had a weapon that was made of Meteoric Iron you basically had a Steel sword before the concept of Steel was even a thing and Steel's properties were such it seemed magical.

Basically if Bronze is entirely ineffective Iron should be as well. Or both are only marginally useful.

So, other things to consider: how much food do these creature need to consume. If it's a considerable amount, they're going to have trouble crossing the Eurasian Steppe (though, I do recognize that's where you'd drawing these critters from mythologically), as you have them originating in China (where all the worst plagues upon the world tend to originate from*) that implies they have a fairly high nutritional intake requirement. So the question is how fast do they spread? Further the question of if the knowledge of black powder developed in China can get across the Silk Road BEFORE these creatures start to show up in the Western regions.

The immediate changes are significant though. Given their being endemic to China it is likely China ends up VERY different culturally and politically. One of the chief responsibilities of government there will be in hunting and killing these creatures and it will hinder the growth of Chinese philosophy as there will simply be less people and prosperity to allow for thinkers to actually be a thing. The long term effects of this means that East Asia would be fundamentally different down to its roots than the modern world and likely unrecognizable (this means that Japan too, while not having to deal with these creatures, is ALSO unrecognizable considering how much culture, philosophy, and religion they drew from China).

Another major factor involved in their spread is going to be their resistance to cold (you seem to imply that they are not highly resistant to it as you mention them spreading south and west from China, but not North into Siberia which has a lot of biomass for them to eat even if lower population dense of humans).

Folks here saying that the Chinese will flee to Japan and survive there. No they won't. There is no China, not as anything recognizable. In 1000 BC the Zhou dynasty had barely been formed, and what we recognize as cultural and philosophical China would not exist for around another 500 years. Further the Zhou were not a seafaring nation, barely controlling any of the coast of China and were mainly located in north-central China. As such they won't be successfully fleeing to Japan, which will remain under the control of the Jomon. Heck IRL the first Chinese influences settlers to Japan, which were from Korea, did not show up until 900 BC anyway.

The further information concerning the lack of ability to burrow and climb actually means mountains are going to be a considerable impediment to their spread. What this truly means is that humans will retreat into the mountains and turn them into fortifications, leaving valleys and plains to the worms. This means that there will be many holdout city-states throughout mountainous regions, and it's potential that the entire Tibetan plateau might go generations before they get invaded. They will also have trouble entering the Middle East, due to the geography of Asia (and as they originate in China, there's a good chance they won't be adapted well to the heat and lack of water in the deserts, thus further slowing their progress into Africa). However, Northern Europe is generally screwed. There's no major obstacles between western China and northern Europe, as they're basically the two ends of the Great Eurasian Steppe, which is basically the natural environment for these creatures. Southern Europe, especially Italy and Greece will actually be somewhat protected from them due to the mountains slowing down their spread there, as well as Iberia (though France is screwed). Ironically, I have my doubts about these creatures being able to infest Africa, as there's no good migration route from Asia into Africa for them. You have the mountains slowing them into the Middle East combined with the desert there and the Med forming a major barrier to entry from Europe. Even if they manage to get into North Africa, the Sahara Desert is basically an impassible barrier for them and Ethiopia is again on a major plateau that will prove difficult for them to infest, thus making the eastern route south difficult.

I imagine they eventually would get into Central Africa and likely overrun things there, but it will take a while.

Meanwhile humans will be basically driven into the mountains for protection from these creatures, and cities will generally always be walled or built on high areas surrounded by cliffs. This is actually advantageous for humans to retreat to as these mountains often have mineral wealth needed to eventually build the weapons needed to kill these things. You'll likely see the development of the long, horse mounted lance earlier here, as even if it's only tipped in Bronze the sheer force imparted by a lance driven by a horse and rider, or potentially a team of horses and chariot, is likely more than sufficient to pierce the hide of these creatures (and if it isn't, no early firearms would be able to pierce its hide either, Lances hit harder than MODERN firearms, to say nothing of pre-modern ones**). Wermhunters will be a major heroic profession amoung the population, likely sponsored by cities and rulers to keep regions near cities free from major infestations.

-------------
* No, seriously, historically as far as we can tell Plague originated in China, and there's a good chance other major pandemics did too, most recently being Covid-19, but that's just the most recent in a long list...

** No, I'm not kidding. F=MA and while the A is lower here you're dealing with a much more massive M. The Force behind a lance is roughly equal to the mass of the horse+rider+kit so you're looking at an easy 1,000 kg (around 2.2 tons) moving at, say, 4.5 m/s (around 10 MPH which is slow for a charging horse) and ending up with 4500 Joules of Force... for comparison the 30-.06 round at most has ~4100 Joules of Force. And the force is concentrated into a similarly small (arguably the Lance might put that force into a SMALLER area than most bullets).
It is not that Bronze weapons don't penetrate their hides. It is that any damage done by Bronze is Wolverine style healed up within seconds of taking damage. Iron Weapons slow down their regeneration to minutes instead of seconds. And Fire and Gunpowder completely bypass their healing factor. Cold Weather grinds their bio functions to a halt. Making them unable to even move. As to the rate of expansion of the Death Worms. They advance at a rate of 50 miles a year. During that time they strip all vegetation and eat all animal biomass in that area.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
It is not that Bronze weapons don't penetrate their hides. It is that any damage done by Bronze is Wolverine style healed up within seconds of taking damage. Iron Weapons slow down their regeneration to minutes instead of seconds. And Fire and Gunpowder completely bypass their healing factor. Cold Weather grinds their bio functions to a halt. Making them unable to even move. As to the rate of expansion of the Death Worms. They advance at a rate of 50 miles a year. During that time they strip all vegetation and eat all animal biomass in that area.
All vegetation and animals? not possible,they could not eat all mices,insects, and small plants.
Aside from that - could they cooperate with each others and teach next generation their knowledge? crows could do that,and they supposed to be smart like them.

If cold weather made them unable to move,then they would die in both Asia and Europe every winter to humans killing them when they are immobile.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
All vegetation and animals? not possible,they could not eat all mices,insects, and small plants.
Aside from that - could they cooperate with each others and teach next generation their knowledge? crows could do that,and they supposed to be smart like them.

If cold weather made them unable to move,then they would die in both Asia and Europe every winter to humans killing them when they are immobile.
They generally move in groups of 100 like a ground swarm. And just like Ravens they problem solve threats and can uses things as tools. Like an alligator they can tolerate and stay active at temps down to 40 degrees F. And most places outside of the arctic won't stay colder than that during the daytime. There is a lot of these Death Worms and they breed like hogs. Only they lay clutches of eggs 20 to 50 to per female. And they reach full adulthood in 5 years time.
 
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stevep

Well-known member
It is not that Bronze weapons don't penetrate their hides. It is that any damage done by Bronze is Wolverine style healed up within seconds of taking damage. Iron Weapons slow down their regeneration to minutes instead of seconds. And Fire and Gunpowder completely bypass their healing factor. Cold Weather grinds their bio functions to a halt. Making them unable to even move. As to the rate of expansion of the Death Worms. They advance at a rate of 50 miles a year. During that time they strip all vegetation and eat all animal biomass in that area.

Bascially your now made them supernatural creatures so its really impossible to tell what possible events are without more details on the way this universe works. For instance your now saying normal fire seems to have effect but how much? For instance do they go up like extremely flammable material or does it need large sized fire and intense heat to kill one one of them.

I would agree with ATP that if they strip everything in the places their passed through, leaving barren desert behind them then - not only is that extremely unlikely - but that would mean their making their continued existence impossible as they can only expand outwards until they run out of exploitable lands they can reach and then they die out. With possibly land in the barren zone being slowly recolonised by plants and animals from areas the worms can't reach after they die out. It would mean that life on Earth survives but the bulk of human culture on the old world hemisphere would have been devastated and set back thousands of years probably.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Bascially your now made them supernatural creatures so its really impossible to tell what possible events are without more details on the way this universe works. For instance your now saying normal fire seems to have effect but how much? For instance do they go up like extremely flammable material or does it need large sized fire and intense heat to kill one one of them.

I would agree with ATP that if they strip everything in the places their passed through, leaving barren desert behind them then - not only is that extremely unlikely - but that would mean their making their continued existence impossible as they can only expand outwards until they run out of exploitable lands they can reach and then they die out. With possibly land in the barren zone being slowly recolonised by plants and animals from areas the worms can't reach after they die out. It would mean that life on Earth survives but the bulk of human culture on the old world hemisphere would have been devastated and set back thousands of years probably.
They were always gonna be supernatural given I am basing them on the Mongolian Death Worm loosely. The Biggest clue being they are Arthropods the size of a Komodo Dragon. And their resistances and weaknesses. Fire will kill them, Gunpowder explosions will kill them. Intense cold will eventually kill them (Aka Arctic conditions not a cold snap) And stuff like Lead, Titanium, Uranium, etc. They strip vegetation like giant grasshoppers. Plant life will grow back eventually but these creatures will stay on the move.

au_mfM-SViqKLHue-huelm_R9rOwJYBf-SeK7xEsuTk.png


The Death Worms are not gonna run out of food anytime soon. It will take centuries to reach the west coast of Eurasia.
 
Last edited:

ATP

Well-known member
They were always gonna be supernatural given I am basing them on the Mongolian Death Worm loosely. The Biggest clue being they are Arthropods the size of a Komodo Dragon. And their resistances and weaknesses. Fire will kill them, Gunpowder explosions will kill them. Intense cold will eventually kill them (Aka Arctic conditions not a cold snap) And stuff like Lead, Titanium, Uranium, etc. They strip vegetation like giant grasshoppers. Plant life will grow back eventually but these creatures will stay on the move.

au_mfM-SViqKLHue-huelm_R9rOwJYBf-SeK7xEsuTk.png


The Death Worms are not gonna run out of food anytime soon. It will take centuries to reach the west coast of Eurasia.
If they really eat everytching,then,after taking entire Eurasia and Africa,they should eat everytching except mountains and arctic territories,and then die.
Humans from Americas could come back...to wasteland.

They generally move in groups of 100 like a ground swarm. And just like Ravens they problem solve threats and can uses things as tools. Like an alligator they can tolerate and stay active at temps down to 40 degrees F. And most places outside of the arctic won't stay colder than that during the daytime. There is a lot of these Death Worms and they breed like hogs. Only they lay clutches of eggs 20 to 50 to per female. And they reach full adulthood in 5 years time.
Females should take care of those eggs and youngsters.Ravens do that,after all.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
If they really eat everytching,then,after taking entire Eurasia and Africa,they should eat everytching except mountains and arctic territories,and then die.
Humans from Americas could come back...to wasteland.


Females should take care of those eggs and youngsters.Ravens do that,after all.
Like I said they have the intelligence of Ravens. And like many intelligent animals they will protect their young. As to their eating they don't eat plant seeds just the plants themselves.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
It is not that Bronze weapons don't penetrate their hides. It is that any damage done by Bronze is Wolverine style healed up within seconds of taking damage. Iron Weapons slow down their regeneration to minutes instead of seconds. And Fire and Gunpowder completely bypass their healing factor. Cold Weather grinds their bio functions to a halt. Making them unable to even move. As to the rate of expansion of the Death Worms. They advance at a rate of 50 miles a year. During that time they strip all vegetation and eat all animal biomass in that area.
Do they still die to sheer trauma at all?

Further they're basically helpless in the winter throughout much of Asia and Europe. Large swaths of the Old world get below 40 degrees F for long periods, even during the day, in the winter. For instance, in Kazakhstan the average temperature in the winter is 15 to 10 degrees F. This is typical for much of the central Eurasian steppe. In fact, the inability to easily function at below 40 degrees means their spread is actually severely curtailed, becoming limited to China and then south into Vietnam and around South East Asia and perhaps eventually into India. The mountainous regions bounding China all become severely inhospitable to these worms in the winter, as all have periods in the winter with sustained below freezing temperatures even during daytime.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Do they still die to sheer trauma at all?

Further they're basically helpless in the winter throughout much of Asia and Europe. Large swaths of the Old world get below 40 degrees F for long periods, even during the day, in the winter. For instance, in Kazakhstan the average temperature in the winter is 15 to 10 degrees F. This is typical for much of the central Eurasian steppe. In fact, the inability to easily function at below 40 degrees means their spread is actually severely curtailed, becoming limited to China and then south into Vietnam and around South East Asia and perhaps eventually into India. The mountainous regions bounding China all become severely inhospitable to these worms in the winter, as all have periods in the winter with sustained below freezing temperatures even during daytime.
Just one problem. A warming period was happening around that time. So they won't have to deal with really cold temps outside of the Arctic. And any animal can die if enough trama is given. If you drop a boulder on a Death Worm that will kill it.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
It is not that Bronze weapons don't penetrate their hides. It is that any damage done by Bronze is Wolverine style healed up within seconds of taking damage. Iron Weapons slow down their regeneration to minutes instead of seconds. And Fire and Gunpowder completely bypass their healing factor. Cold Weather grinds their bio functions to a halt. Making them unable to even move. As to the rate of expansion of the Death Worms. They advance at a rate of 50 miles a year. During that time they strip all vegetation and eat all animal biomass in that area.
Greeks and Romans may halt their advance with their fortifications and their siege weapons. Greek fire, iron tipped scorpio bolts (not very mobile, but deadlier than muskets in terms of sheer damage on a hit), catapult launched incendiaries, and of course mass use of of flaming arrows by everyone.
Do they still die to sheer trauma at all?

Further they're basically helpless in the winter throughout much of Asia and Europe. Large swaths of the Old world get below 40 degrees F for long periods, even during the day, in the winter. For instance, in Kazakhstan the average temperature in the winter is 15 to 10 degrees F. This is typical for much of the central Eurasian steppe. In fact, the inability to easily function at below 40 degrees means their spread is actually severely curtailed, becoming limited to China and then south into Vietnam and around South East Asia and perhaps eventually into India. The mountainous regions bounding China all become severely inhospitable to these worms in the winter, as all have periods in the winter with sustained below freezing temperatures even during daytime.
Yeah, the climate weather will shape their advance. Southern and Southeastern Asia are probably doomed as that's where the temperatures will channel them. Unable to cross the oceans, from there they will go west, following the warm southern coast more or less, to Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan.

The route through Kazachstan is iffy due to winters, though at that age the population may not have the density and organization to wipe them out during the winters effectively - without opposition or seriously harsh climate, at 50 miles per year they may do more or less 5000 miles a century. So if they do get through, they would end up stuck somewhere around northern parts of proto-slavic lands.

For one there will be no Greece-Persia wars because the worms will strike Persia pretty hard and probably ruin it, from there spreading to Middle East and Turkey. Byzantium\Constantinople\Istanbul may end up a famous fortress standing against the spread of the worms to Europe for millenia.

So to the Middle East they will head, slowed down by the heat and something along the lines of Greco-Egyptian armies. Then it's a matter of how long Egypt manages to stand. If the worms break through to the Nile Valley, Africa is doomed.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
In this scenario in the year 1,000 BC a new kind of creature appears in Eurasia. It is a very large species of Arthropod. They are giant Caterpillar type creatures.

The Death Worm:
Length: 10ft
Height 2ft
Width: 2.5ft
Weight: 300lbs
Speed: 15 Mph Max Speed
Jump: Can jump 10ft high in a single bound.
Defenses: venomous bite and poisonous spines on back
Biology: Warm Blooded, Omnivore.
Intelligence: Same as a Raven

The Death Worm first appears in Ancient China. Where they reek havoc on that nation. Killing and Eating animals, people and plant life alike. They are slowly heading west and south on the Eurasian landmass. News of these beast has traveled as far as Ancient Greece. Where ever these creatures go they leave death and destruction in their wake. The only known way to kill the Death Worms is by using a combination of Sulphur, Saltpeter and Charcoal to blow them up. And that was discovered on accident. The Death Worms skin is impervious to bronze weapons and resistant to iron weapons. They also can't survive in Arctic conditions. Currently the Death Worms are crossing the Eurasian Stepe heading towards Europe and the Middle East. They have no way of reaching the Americas Australia or Japan. How does this new creature affect human history from this point forward? Will some ancient civilizations fall?
Reminds me of the gruesome Sci-Fi movie "Strange Invaders".
 

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