Flamers are useful for offensive situations in general not just entrenched enemies. On the planet catachan flamers are used to keep the foliage and fauna away from settlements. Because the ones of thier home planet are a lot more dangerous then that of Pandora. Barking toads.... Catachan Devils.... etc etc.
Flamers are good for clearing large forested or jungle like areas. Because it will push people out. Force then out in the open to be mowed down. If you don't leave you burn to death. If you leave you get shot to death. It is also a lot harder to fight when you are burning.
Maybe in make believe land flamers are useful 😂
There's a reason the RDA who had access to them didn't use them in the final battle and why Modern militaries don't use them outside of specialized artillery.
Flames are too short ranged, volatile, ammo ineffective, ect. You're dying on a dumbhill if you seriously think flamers would be useful at all in this scenario.
]You are acting like these soldiers arnt used to being outnumbered and out gunned. Here they are just outnumbered.... facing knock off orks. A lot lower tech level then orks....
Okay since you like the wank Catachan so much 😂 show me exactly a Battalion facing off and winning against 2,000+ Orkz.
No Titans, No Air support just armored tanks and a couple hundred infantry. Post the quote and numbers, because 99% of the time 40k debaters just repeat arguments some other 40k fan said that was twisted out of context and they don't actually know a dam thing about the factions 😂
That is correct they all arnt the same. It still didn't stop them from getting beaten back in the movie. They literally were losing before the animals arrived.
The thing is, the catachans have a lot better weapons to deal with the native animals.
1. No one doubts the Catachan can win fights against the Navi but the actual battle itself, which you know they managed to win.
2. Uhhhh no they don't unless they're packing mini nukes they'll run out of ammo long before they kill all the animal reinforcements.
True, but there are plenty that hunt the people of the planet and the people have adapted. Catachan Devils for instance, or the face eaters...
Yes and if you've read instances of Catachan actually fighting their "Super Human" opponents they rarely blitz them right away and act like lemmings giving the Catachans opportunities to fight back because they decided to take their sweet time.
Plot Armor isn't here, the Navi aren't going to stand out in the open and stand still while monologuing or pick off one person at a time per couple of seconds, ect.
The RDA mechs are bik bulky and have giant glass windows on them.....
And Ogryns are more dangerous then being just in melee.
Ogryns are even more bulky less competent and tactically perceptive and have no protection other than being big and thick skinned.
Tell you what, what's an Ogryn going to do if he gets a Javelin through his brain with Neuro toxin because he's an easy ass target to hit?
Autocannons...lots of Autcannons here. Like, literally block out the air with them.
There's only a couple hundred gear 😂 bro your argument is bouncing EVERYWHERE.
First it's oh the Catachans will use cover and entrench themselves but then they'll also be super sneaky and disappear into the woods while entrenched and then attack with flamers and endless autocannons in hand to hand!
They can't do all these tactics at once, if they're attacking they can't entrench into positions, if they're using heavy weapons and armor they will loose the mobility advantage and won't be stealthing anyehere, auto cannons and their ammo is big and bulky so they'll get out maneuvered by people who actually know the layout and get an arrow to the spine.
Add in that the Catachans would actually be using the environment and not just doing a firing
line...using the jungle to fight jist like the Navi.
Which they would lose, it's the difference between someone fighting in different houses to fighting someone in their own house. The RDA actually was familiar with forest combat because they were there for years, didn't help them and neither would the Catachan forest experience be helping them in any significant way here.
The battle isn't going to go on for too long for them to make use of it anyway.
They would be in the open if they don't need too. The RDA had slow firing large caliber that doesn't compare to that of a Autocannon. Hell, waves of enemies from Orks to Tyranids that outnumber the Navi arnt always able to defeat a BN of Guard....
Stop wanking the Catachan, if they were so good they'd actually be able to clear the planet of dangers instead of being isolated to fortress communities on the planet 😂
I swear you're misrepresenting them with Spacemarines. Catachans are literally just Rambo's with plot armor.
Oh look, stampede. Oh look, it just got stopped by an Ogryn and those that didn't get mowed down by Lascannons have been melted by Chem weapons. Or melta...
Cool and the thousands of other animals encircle them and crush their flanks while the Navi on their Dragons pick off the heavy weapon users with diving arrow bombs.
Because the Navi are giant ass targets and tracking the Navi to where ever they are and knowing they are in a trap is huge...
There is so much concealment and foliage in the forest along with thick trees that they'll end up hitting the forest more than the Navi, the RDA were trained Military with years of experience there too and could only end up hitting them when the Navi came to them.
Much smaller without air support Catachan will have just as a hard time if not harder because now they have to worry about this
Let's say that's two thousand figure is the numbers for just the Navi Infantry here, each one is carrying a weapon that can one shot a Catachan Infantry and possibly two/three shot a Ogryn.
2,000 vs 500-800
It's going to end pretty quick there since the RDA would have had a regiment (Colonel's are in charge of regiments and he brought every man he could to fight) that's 1.2k with a good amount of air assets.
Multiple times Catachans can sneak up on Eldar....
More like bad feat for Eldar unless you're implying the Catachan are somehow better at sneaking than Lictors who've been outright said in the codex to be superior to humans in stealth.
Catachan Plot armor doesn't exist here lol.
What arty? They have mortars. Which are actually great in a jungle and wanna know why? They make splinters. Lots kf them in deadly amounts.
Lol tell me you know nothing about jungle warfare without telling me you know nothing about jungle warfare.
When It Comes to Artillery, U.S. Is Outgunned by Enemy's Weaponry : Military: The Korean War was the last time the United States had clear dominance.
Artillery esque (Mortars for example) would experience a reduction in half the amount of kills it normally would when not used in a dense jungle full of foliage, even splinters would not do much because Navi are durable and so are their creatures.
It'd why you don't run into a forest when under fire.
But the Catachans will run into the forest to beat them in H2H was one of your arguments...
The Navi have no way to actually kill the Chimeras or the Bane Wolf, or the Hellhound.
Drop on top of the tanks Blindspot, ergo the hatch. Rip it open or pry it open with their superhuman strength as the crew can do nothing then once it's ripped open pull the crew out and kill them?
None of those tanks can aim straight up into the sky to shoot banshees down and the Navi will pick off the ground support since they have no one covering the skies for them.
Are you going to argue now that
Is going to be their anti air?
The Bane wolves alone can basically make a large area around the Catachan base camp barren as can the flamer wothout having to risk being hit by Arrows.
So I'm going to take this as your final argument then and official stance for their strategy, the Catachans are going to stand idely by as the several minutes or hour it takes to burn the foliage and trees around them to ash and then create a makeshift base with stationary tanks.
Ok
Keep in mind they can shoot from Banshee back and are trained from a young age, let's say they're comparable to irl Expert Archers.
English longbow | weapon
So 200-400 yard range with accuracy, let's say there's bout 500 Banshee riders conservatively.
500 Arrows x 6 in a minute is 3,000 Arrows fired with in a minute of fighting, assuming the kill and hit ratio is 25% that's 750 incapacitated or dead Catachan with the first minute of combat due to Navi having free reign of the skys and you admitting the Catachan will mount a stationary defense.
Even if it took the Banshee fighters four to five consecutive minutes worth of attempts to land their shots they still end up winning against a stationary Catachan defense with just their riders alone.
You obviously dont know anything about jow catschans work then.
I do, the writers want badasses so they make Rambo's but with bad writing they have their Super Human opposition fight with the one shared brain cell to the point even Disney Canon Stormtroopers could replicate the same feats because the opposition gives them the opportunity to.
Navi have the forest to help, so do Orks, that outnumber the Catachans
Well Orkz are stupid and literally incompetent baffoons that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
They're physical monsters but more often than not tactically and strategically incompetent.
Yet when a small batch of Catachans went to help some Ork Hunters, they were to damn good....
Cherry picking lol.
There's a novelization (Which I own) where several Skitaari Rangers and Assassin's die to the most basic primitive forms of Orkz. But in the Codex they absolutely shit over any Imperial Guard regiment including the Catachans.
So which is it?
Catachan>>>Orkz
Orkz>>>Skitaari
Skitaari>>>Catachan.
You can't mindlessly drone off regurgitated arguments that are devoid of logic, 40k is inherently inconsistent trying to wank off the Catachans for what they really aren't is not the best thing to do for the debate.
Even primitive tribal savages with wooden spears can kill a Spacemarine, are you going to now argue every Guardsmen can 1v1 a Spacemarine? Consistency and context matters.
