ISOT 9/11 ISOTed 911 years ago

On September 11, 2001 just 5 minutes before the famous attack on the Twin Towers, a bright flash of light Vwas seen. The World Trade center and the entire city of Manhattan, Including 2 safely landed hi-jacked planes, were ISOTed to September 11, 1090 In modern day Manhattan. The Pentagon, Including one safely landed hi-jacked planet, were also ISOTed to the same year, In modern day Washington D.C, and a crop field with one safely landed hi-jacked plane were also ISOTed to the same year. What do these people do now? Do they find the natives? Would they survive? Would they ever go to the Old World? What do you think?
 

Buba

A total creep
Almost everybody dies of starvation inside a week. The few - and I'm talking in double digits here - lucky ones are enslaved by Amerindians.
Probably a few score ruthless people with guns and fishing rods make it into the woods and survive, setting up new tribes and sliding into stone age hunter-gatherers inside a generation.
Civilisation is gone quickly.
In a best case scenario - if a largeish tribe created - English and writing survive. But can still be wiped out by disease, famine or rabid chipmunks. Christianity would then also survive, being the most popular religion. Other faiths simply die out.
I imagine a very, very slim chance of some survivors - surviving, for starters :) - and building a crude craft and half-sailing, half-drifting to Iceland.
 
Last edited:
Almost everybody dies of starvation inside a week. The few - and I'm talking in double digits here - lucky ones are enslaved by Amerindians.
Probably a few score ruthless people with guns and fishing rods make it into the woods and survive, setting up new tribes and sliding into stone age hunter-gatherers inside a generation.
Civilisation is gone quickly.
In a best case scenario - if a largeish tribe created - English and writing survive. But can still be wiped out by disease, famine or rabid chipmunks. Christianity would then also survive, being the most popular religion. Other faiths simply die out.
I imagine a very, very slim chance of some survivors - surviving, for starters :) - and building a crude craft and half-sailing, half-drifting to Iceland.
Well, those planes still have fuel, but It would be hard for the passengers to fight off the Hi-jackers.

They still have working cars, and police officers.

They could probably fight of the Amerindians for a while, and the Amerindians would probably still die of disease.

I wonder If the city would ever be found...

That crop field would help the passengers for a while...
 

ATP

Well-known member
On September 11, 2001 just 5 minutes before the famous attack on the Twin Towers, a bright flash of light Vwas seen. The World Trade center and the entire city of Manhattan, Including 2 safely landed hi-jacked planes, were ISOTed to September 11, 1090 In modern day Manhattan. The Pentagon, Including one safely landed hi-jacked planet, were also ISOTed to the same year, In modern day Washington D.C, and a crop field with one safely landed hi-jacked plane were also ISOTed to the same year. What do these people do now? Do they find the natives? Would they survive? Would they ever go to the Old World? What do you think?
You cruel sadist.

Almost everybody dies of starvation inside a week. The few - and I'm talking in double digits here - lucky ones are enslaved by Amerindians.
Probably a few score ruthless people with guns and fishing rods make it into the woods and survive, setting up new tribes and sliding into stone age hunter-gatherers inside a generation.
Civilisation is gone quickly.
In a best case scenario - if a largeish tribe created - English and writing survive. But can still be wiped out by disease, famine or rabid chipmunks. Christianity would then also survive, being the most popular religion. Other faiths simply die out.
I imagine a very, very slim chance of some survivors - surviving, for starters :) - and building a crude craft and half-sailing, half-drifting to Iceland.

Something like that.People would die from hunger,unless military take over,and use modern weapon to hunt.
Then most survive.
They probably would be capable of making muskets and ammo for them till modern ammo would be used.
So,villages/towns with resettled people on 1800-1700 level.

Well, those planes still have fuel, but It would be hard for the passengers to fight off the Hi-jackers.

They still have working cars, and police officers.

They could probably fight of the Amerindians for a while, and the Amerindians would probably still die of disease.

I wonder If the city would ever be found...

That crop field would help the passengers for a while...


They would die,unless military safe some with dictatorship.Working cars would not help them without roads.
Survivors would live in towns/villages,and city ruons would be found - after 1600 by european sailors.

Passengers would die all,or being enslaved.


All in all - we have:
1.In 1090 Indians certainly get diseases - which,in long run,save them from quick conqest.
Americans would either die,or some survive in towns on 1800 technological level.
They could start conqering USA in that case - we would have USA on 1800 level in,let say,1700.

Unless they have some ships there - then they could send small group to Europe.They could only help with technological progress there,few people would not take over.

2.In 2001 - No war on terror,no Iraq and Afganistan invasion,christian in Iraq survived to our times.Better for everybody except Putin - he could not cosplay as USA helper here.
 

Buba

A total creep
I missed that the whole of Manhattan is ISOTed.
Benefit - more skills get carried over.
Drawback - many more mouths to feed.
The fact that there are some 40 thousand Police and many more armed guards does not change the fact that there is no food.
So, an even bigger Vlad Tepes award :p

Fun fact - once the site is found by Europeans the 400-600 tons of gold in 99% pure ingots will crash the world's economy :)
 
I missed that the whole of Manhattan is ISOTed.
Benefit - more skills get carried over.
Drawback - many more mouths to feed.
The fact that there are some 40 thousand Police and many more armed guards does not change the fact that there is no food.
So, an even bigger Vlad Tepes award :p

Fun fact - once the site is found by Europeans the 400-600 tons of gold in 99% pure ingots will crash the world's economy :)
Well at least the Europeans finally found El Dorado😂😂😂
 

ATP

Well-known member
I missed that the whole of Manhattan is ISOTed.
Benefit - more skills get carried over.
Drawback - many more mouths to feed.
The fact that there are some 40 thousand Police and many more armed guards does not change the fact that there is no food.
So, an even bigger Vlad Tepes award :p

Fun fact - once the site is found by Europeans the 400-600 tons of gold in 99% pure ingots will crash the world's economy :)

Indeed,i see police and military taking their families,people with skills,and going to build towns.Killing those who try follow them.
So,we would have police/army towns,and remnant of cannibals in ruins.

Vlad Tepes Award,indeed.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Manhattan's actually going to screw over a lot of natives because it was, at that point, a massive hunting ground that supplied the tribes with food. Then again as noted, it's fairly likely the natives are going to be hit hard with a few plagues from the upstreamers anyway.

Manhattan has a self-contained power grid but its plants are gas turbines, not sure how long they'll be able to operate but probably days, no more than weeks. Long enough to get some radio messages to the Pentagon and link up, though.

There's enough tooling and machine shops for them to kickstart a bit of industrial revolution, and between Manhattan and the Pentagon there's going to be plenty of people with the knowledge base to MacGuyver up some light industry. I would estimate they wind up decaying to early steam technology before starting to advance again.

They should have enough boats to fish, and game in that area is very plentiful so they will have a decent chance of staving off initial starvation. The population will have to rapidly leave Manhattan and spread out to claim enough territory to feed themselves, however. They will know where all manner of mineral deposits are and the Appalachians are basically made of coal so initial resources won't be terrible. New York actually has a large number of mineral, gas, and oil deposits historically, it was so heavily settled for a reason and it wasn't because the UN set its headquarters there in the early 1400s.

Animals are going to be a major bottleneck, in the sense that the Americas have no domesticable ones. If they're extremely lucky, there might be a cargo ship with some livestock nearby. There are some mounted police and, as far as I know, a single dude ranch that will go downstream. So they will have horses but I don't know if any cattle will come with. Possibly they'll get some chickens if fortunate. Dogs and cats will be plentiful. If they get cattle and chickens they'll be well set for future farming and ranching operations. There are going to be at least some heirloom vegetables in hipster bistros if nowhere else, and seeds for flowerpot gardens and those are going to be gold for getting early farming working, those seeds will be more valuable than a penthouse apartment at that point.

There are enough subways in Manhattan that they might be able to scavenge all that rail and use it to build a railroad to some nearby resource deposits. This will take some doing, it's going to be backbreaking work clearing the path and even worse building a working locomotive but it's at least possible. Reaching the Cumberland gap is probably beyond them so they're going to be stuck east coast-only for a long time, but the east coast also has plenty going on to support them.

Linkups to the Pentagon are going to be best accomplished by going most of the way by boat. They should have enough hobbyist sailors to get some sailing ships working at the beginning before they're able to build a steam engine and get a supply of coal for them. I'm not sure if the Pentagon comes with enough surrounding land to have any boats available but it's likely to have plenty of engineers and sailors of its own, and at least some of them will know how to build and sail old-school craft.

The big question in my mind is firstly if they'll be wiped out by the native tribes. At this point the density of natives is going to be around 50-100 times greater than it was post-smallpox. The Pentagon will have enough defenses to survive, and isn't on critically valuable land anyway, but Manhattan is not so well defended and also happens to have just displaced so majorly important hunting grounds so is more likely to be attacked.

Secondarily there's some question as to whether they'll simply be absorbed by the native tribes. I see this as a touch more likely (even just police weaponry is going to be horrific in repelling initial attacks) and it leads to interesting places. If they have any cattle, that's going to spread cowpox to the population and that grants immunity to smallpox. The population of Manhattan and the Pentagon will, themselves, have a number of doctors and a knowledge base of which diseases will spread along with how to combat them. With 400 years to play with, it's likely that the assimilated upstreamers will have spread enough knowledge for the natives to at least have a well developed steam-based industry, and it will include enough white guilt and historical information for them to know what the Europeans did to the native population. Odds are they'll be sending ships to Europe no less than a century earlier than Europe was able to reach the new world, and the conquest may well go the other way around.
 

Buba

A total creep
You have close to FOUR million people on Manhattan. Feeding them is impossible.
As it is the whole island that goes, then there should be past-first-week survivors. Heck, indeed some ships (with refugees?) may make a run for it to Iceland or even to Europe.

Most of the people in the Pentagon will be dead inside a week - no food, no meds.
I cannot imagine that in the chaos reigning on Manhattan anybody would care to send a ship with food there. Would there be a ship with appropriate draft moored to Manhantan Island?
The only chance for the Pentagon people is to break up into small groups and take to the wilds, hunting and fishing. Maybe some will survive.

The people in the "crop field" - the less said the better ... RIP. Nobody knows where they are. Cell phones are gone, GPS is gone, the aircraft's radio - was any compatible radio ISOTed? There are such in the other three planes - but can they communicate while on the ground? Do they have the range? Then again - does not really matter as nobody is coming to save them.
 
Last edited:

ATP

Well-known member
You have close to FOUR million people on Manhattan. Feeding them is impossible.
As it is the whole island that goes, then there should be past-first-week survivors. Heck, indeed some ships (with refugees?) may make a run for it to Iceland or even to Europe.

Most of the people in the Pentagon will be dead inside a week - no food, no meds.
I cannot imagine that in the chaos reigning on Manhattan anybody would care to send a ship with food there. Would there be a ship with appropriate draft moored to Manhantan Island?
The only chance for the Pentagon people is to break up into small groups and take to the wilds, hunting and fishing. Maybe some will survive.

The people in the "crop field" - the less said the better ... RIP. Nobody knows where they are. Cell phones are gone, GPS is gone, the aircraft's radio - was any compatible radio ISOTed? There are such in the other three planes - but can they communicate while on the ground? Do they have the range? Then again - does not really matter as nobody is coming to save them.

Yes,we would be lucky if police/military manage to evacuate 200.000 people out of island with weapons and tools.
Rest - maybe 4-5.000 cannibals would survive.

Pentagon - younger and those who knew how to survive,and run for it would live.Others - few more cannibals.

Crop field - not even cannibals would survive there.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I think that the Pentagon, being full of armed and disciplined military personnel with at least some survival skills will do the best.

TBH I always thought that place had some emergency supplies in the event of war.

Allegedly there was a plan to build a supermassive bunker right under it, but that got put on hold, but that doesn't mean that the place doesn't have some supplies and countermeasures in case the big one hits.

So some form of military dictatorship probably assimilates the natives in the area and starts expanding, then it assimilates whatever leftovers of the Manhattanites there are.

Manhattan probably collapses unless it has some type of civil defense/FEMA stockpiles of food, with just in time deliveries I kinda doubt that the various supermarkets and other retailers will have enough food stocked.

From what I have seen, Manhattan has some pretty big dock facilities, but I am skeptical that they can convert the ships into a fishing fleet fast enough and large enough to supply everyone with the bare minimum.Depending on what happens the police might manage to take over and organize a lottery to send out "colonists" and preserve the food supply, or they can cordon off a few safe areas and wait for the roving hungry mobs to spread out and start foraging for food.

King/president Rudy Giuliani anyone?

If he is present.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I think that the Pentagon, being full of armed and disciplined military personnel with at least some survival skills will do the best.

TBH I always thought that place had some emergency supplies in the event of war.

Allegedly there was a plan to build a supermassive bunker right under it, but that got put on hold, but that doesn't mean that the place doesn't have some supplies and countermeasures in case the big one hits.

So some form of military dictatorship probably assimilates the natives in the area and starts expanding, then it assimilates whatever leftovers of the Manhattanites there are.

Manhattan probably collapses unless it has some type of civil defense/FEMA stockpiles of food, with just in time deliveries I kinda doubt that the various supermarkets and other retailers will have enough food stocked.

From what I have seen, Manhattan has some pretty big dock facilities, but I am skeptical that they can convert the ships into a fishing fleet fast enough and large enough to supply everyone with the bare minimum.Depending on what happens the police might manage to take over and organize a lottery to send out "colonists" and preserve the food supply, or they can cordon off a few safe areas and wait for the roving hungry mobs to spread out and start foraging for food.

King/president Rudy Giuliani anyone?

If he is present.
They actually already have a fishing fleet. New York has a pretty robust fishing industry. There's some room for question as to how far offshore the effect reaches, and some ships are going to be left behind since they're out to sea while others will be in harbor, so the exact number isn't very clear.

Given how fish stocks have about halved just since 1960, we can expect catches to at least triple current standards and more likely those boats will be bringing in four to five times more fish than they currently do, so f'rex instead of 600,000 pounds of black seabass we might expect at least a couple million.

If they can bring themselves to commit unspeakable horrors against Greta Thunberg, at this point whales are still extremely common (So much so that native whalers would often harpoon them from the beach) and a major food source for the native tribes. Bringing home a single humpback whale (40 tons) is going to yield around 20-25 tons of meat and, if they bother to render it, tons of whale oil for industrial use as well.

Now right now Manhattan is looking at needing about 12 million pounds of food per day, about 6000 tons. One whale isn't going to do it but with the existing fishing fleet and the ludicrously productive fishing grounds of 1099 they will at least have enough wriggle room to stretch their supplies of spaghetti a bit.

They're still going to have to expand and take territory as fast as possible of course. Fortunately being pushy and taking other people's stuff are New York's strong points anyway.

I suspect water will actually be a bigger initial limiter as the reservoirs in the Catskill mountains are going to be delivering a 404 error to the pipes leading to Manhattan, so they're either going to have to figure out how to build a desalinization plant in a couple of days or figure out how to get their pipes tapping the Hudson river in a similar timeframe. I believe the Croton Aqueducts are still in place but the canals leading to them are outside Manhattan, they might be able to do an earthmoving operation to get water to them again.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
They actually already have a fishing fleet. New York has a pretty robust fishing industry. There's some room for question as to how far offshore the effect reaches, and some ships are going to be left behind since they're out to sea while others will be in harbor, so the exact number isn't very clear.

Given how fish stocks have about halved just since 1960, we can expect catches to at least triple current standards and more likely those boats will be bringing in four to five times more fish than they currently do, so f'rex instead of 600,000 pounds of black seabass we might expect at least a couple million.


Now right now Manhattan is looking at needing about 12 million pounds of food per day, about 6000 tons. One whale isn't going to do it but with the existing fishing fleet and the ludicrously productive fishing grounds of 1099 they will at least have enough wriggle room to stretch their supplies of spaghetti a bit.
Is it big enough and even docked at Manhattan, though?

As @Buba pointed out.

What about processing?
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Is it big enough and even docked at Manhattan, though?

As @Buba pointed out.

What about processing?
As to how many will be docked at Manhattan, impossible to say given what information we have. Certainly, some fishing boats are going to be at the docks for maintenance and repairs, or just because the owner is ill, in probate, etc. Other boats fish at night anyway (I used to watch California squid boats fish at night, the squid hide during the day). The island is leaving at 8:35am which is not ideal for retaining the day-fishing boats, most of which will have left around 4-4:30 in the morning in order to reach the fishing grounds by dawn. The downstream fleet's unlikely to be able to feed everybody but, again, slamming a few tens of thousand tons of fish and shellfish a day into the island is going to help stretch food supplies while they try to evacuate and expand.

Food processing is not going to be an issue. Manhattan, and New York in general, are riddled with meat and fish processors. This is because Jews rarely trust meat to be Kosher unless they know it was processed in a Kosher deli (and more devout ones will only use a local one where they know the owner is Jewish and follows the same sect rules), and there's a very large Jewish population there. Muslims similarly demand Halal meat processing and generally only trust known local processors who are their specific flavor of Muslim, and New York is the largest concentration of both in the country. If you check Google maps there's an absolutely crazy number of meat and fish processors on the island.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Good to know.
But which borough are the boats based at?

That made me laff and the perspective warmed my heart.
Really hard to say which boat's going to be where, AFAIK boats don't tend to always use the same pier every time and will shift around a lot. Manhattan has a decent number of piers jutting out into the New York Bay, at least one is dedicated to the Staten Island Ferry (This is probably going to see use sending people to the mainland, I have my doubts the Ferry is going to be able to reach all the way to DC to link up with the Pentagon). Another is dedicated to a cruise line. The rest are used for a rando mishmash of fishing, cargo, and personal ships.

Long Island has far more piers in the bay than Manhattan and will probably take the lion's share, there's quite a few docks at Jersey as well. There's also a bit of a question as to how far into the water the effect extends anyway.

Ultimately the main thing is that having any fishing boats and, thus, experienced fishermen gives them a solid core of tools and experience to draw on it immediately training up more fishermen and knowing which boats can be rapidly converted to fishing craft, be they personal yachts or cargo ships. That will be significantly more valuable than the day 1 fish anyway.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Really hard to say which boat's going to be where, AFAIK boats don't tend to always use the same pier every time and will shift around a lot. Manhattan has a decent number of piers jutting out into the New York Bay, at least one is dedicated to the Staten Island Ferry (This is probably going to see use sending people to the mainland, I have my doubts the Ferry is going to be able to reach all the way to DC to link up with the Pentagon). Another is dedicated to a cruise line. The rest are used for a rando mishmash of fishing, cargo, and personal ships.

Long Island has far more piers in the bay than Manhattan and will probably take the lion's share, there's quite a few docks at Jersey as well. There's also a bit of a question as to how far into the water the effect extends anyway.

Ultimately the main thing is that having any fishing boats and, thus, experienced fishermen gives them a solid core of tools and experience to draw on it immediately training up more fishermen and knowing which boats can be rapidly converted to fishing craft, be they personal yachts or cargo ships. That will be significantly more valuable than the day 1 fish anyway.

So,survival of Manhattan population depend on how many fishermans do not go to the sea yet?
I think,that even with that,we still would have collapse.
Only difference - except police towns we would have fisher towns,too.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top