21st century battleship thought experiment

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Right, so I came up with this as something of a "dare" to myself: the idea of a big gunned ship in modern warfare and what its place would be. After a bit of brainstorming, I came up with this trainwreck as a class of ship for the Royal Navy. Hopefully you should find it vaguely interesting if not entertaining.
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Hypothetical Royal Navy battleship: Ramillies class

Ramillies would be a battleship designed for an epoch long after the age of the battleship. She is not meant to engage large numbers of enemies in vast columns of her sisters and cousins. The days of Trafalgar and Jutland are not coming again. Indeed, these are the days of Midway and Leyte Gulf, in which the battleship proved an invaluable escort instead of a lone battle winner.

Thus, a modern warship of this kind must be designed with a specific role in mind instead of being the undisputed master of the seas. In that regard, Ramillies would be a ship built to be the last line of defence in a dire situation. Bristling with CIWS, she can throw up a screen to catch any missile that has slipped through the destroyer’s protective fire. With a smaller complement than usual of missiles, she may join the fleet in unleashing a salvo of them to strike at her distant enemies. Most importantly however, her vicious long teeth may be used to tear apart any unwelcome guest. A single hit from a twelve-inch shell would be devastating to a modern warship, and Ramillies would have four, computer guided variants of these mounted in two turrets, one fore, one aft. Ramillies would be one of the first ships in a while designed to possess a primary armament of the “big gun.”

Essentially, whereas frigates and submarines mostly serve an anti-submarine or patrol role, destroyers anti-air, and carriers aerial supremacy, a 21st century battleship would be the embodiment of surface supremacy. For those who see that as a thing of the past, I press caution. Many a time in history have enemy ships inexplicably lumbered out of the mist and caused havoc. The battle of Samar, alongside the fate of HMS Glorious and her escorts, should be evidence enough of that, despite the gallantry they showed in facing down the odds (and even succeeding with a mixture of luck and titanium grade balls in the case of USS Johnston). In such a situation, an enemy destroyer or frigate would blunder straight into the teeth of Ramillies and be torn apart.

However, Ramillies would not necessarily be a three-hundred-metre-long behemoth as many on deviantart depict modern battleships. In some respects, she would be an updated, scaled up pre-dreadnought with bits and pieces of HMS Dreadnought thrown in. At roughly one hundred and seventy metres long, to make room for her guns, missile compliment, and helicopter pad, she would be much smaller (and in some respects less heavily armed) than most World War II battleships. Also, to grant a further edge in possible gunnery duels, she would be fitted with heavier armour than is usual. Whilst, of course, you can’t slap armour plate on sensitive electronic systems, the super structure and main battery being able to shrug off hits can only be useful. This would also shield secondary fire control should the electronics be knocked out and the crew have to fall back on a more primitive but still functional method of gaining a firing solution. Atop that, she would have to be fast but not too fast. The Queen Elizabeth class carriers of the fleet can just about exceed 25 knots, so if Ramillies could push 29 knots or 30 knots, she could keep pace with her primary ward. With preferably four in her class, two of these vessels can provide support to each carrier and form a line of battle should the situation demand it.

To summarize, Ramillies would serve as rather expensive tape to go over whatever cracks exist in carrier defence, whilst outgunning every other ship afloat should some silly bastard get too close to the carriers.

Thank you for listening to this out of touch with reality ramble. I feel like I have, to an extent, created a mentally stunted Colonial Battlestar that operates in the water.

For whatever good that does.

As a way of extending the thought experiment to you all, what would be your conception of a big gunned ship for a modern navy?
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Take the plans for the Iowa/South Dakota classes, and update them with modern tech.

Modify the plans for using railguns, lasers, nuclear power, and VLS cells, with added modern sonar and radars, plus equipment for drone ops.

Bam, you got Flight II Iowa's and Sodaks; a proven hull design with modern weapons and capabilities.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Still more a fan of the IJN Takao-cruisers, when it comes to ascetics.

The IJN certainly have some of the more interesting designs of the period. To look at it, it feels like it shouldn't work but does. Quite fitting of what was, in my opinion, the finest navy in the world in the 1930s.

As for Ramillies's hull, she'd have something not too dissimilar to HMS Dreadnought's, specifically her lowered wings on which CIWS would be mounted.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
The proposal of the battleship as a defensive platform reminds me of proposals to use rail guns as anti-missile defense. I think we should run with that.
Four single rail-gun turrets designed with anti-missile attacks in mind when designing the tracking gear.
Several high velocity 5 inch dual purpose gun turrets with modernized tracking and fire control.
A moderate VLS battery
And of course lots and lots of CIWS.

No space should be alloted to aircraft, that is other ship's duties.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
We have no need for long range sgandard artillery anymore, and that was what battleships were useful for.
Since they will only be effective when we can get rail guns that can fire miles away at a target.
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
We have no need for long range sgandard artillery anymore, and that was what battleships were useful for.
Since they will only be effective when we can get rail guns that can fire miles away at a target.
Until someone tosses an EMP at you.
Then it's scrambling back to WW2 tech that still works.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
Until someone tosses an EMP at you.
Then it's scrambling back to WW2 tech that still works.

EMPs are not a magic "turn off technology" button, it's thus far proven far easier to shield electronics against EMP than it has been to force a pulse through that shielding, and there's no indication that's going to change anytime soon.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
No space should be alloted to aircraft, that is other ship's duties.

Helicopter pads are incredibly useful for the transfer of supplies and personnel. Should at least keep one of those.

We have no need for long range sgandard artillery anymore, and that was what battleships were useful for.
Since they will only be effective when we can get rail guns that can fire miles away at a target.

Ramillies's teeth are for anything that gets too close to its ward. As I understand it, a shell is a bit more difficult to shoot down than a missile, and a 12incher slamming into a modern destroyer would be rather catastrophic. Also, if and when missile complement is exhausted in a fleet battle, the decisive action may have to be fought via gunnery. That'll involve closing range.

Things are rarely totally obsolete in warfare.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Helicopter pads are incredibly useful for the transfer of supplies and personnel. Should at least keep one of those.



Ramillies's teeth are for anything that gets too close to its ward. As I understand it, a shell is a bit more difficult to shoot down than a missile, and a 12incher slamming into a modern destroyer would be rather catastrophic. Also, if and when missile complement is exhausted in a fleet battle, the decisive action may have to be fought via gunnery. That'll involve closing range.

Things are rarely totally obsolete in warfare.
Point, but battle ship will be second target
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Point, but battle ship will be second target

Even better! With her armour and armament of CIWS, she can draw, deal with, and take a lot of fire that could have gone for the carrier. Besides, she'd be positioned behind the initial defensive layers of destroyers and frigates as a "last line of defence" so this suits Ramillies well.

It could spare the deck space for the landing pad but not have a hanger.

That sounds about right.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
It could spare the deck space for the landing pad but not have a hanger.
That sounds about right.
No, what they need is a pad large enough and solid enough to land an Osprey on, with either collaspable or rigid deckshelters they can use if they need, for repair puproses or for critical supplies you don't want to risk getting soaked by spray or rain.
 

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