Religion Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh?

ATP

Well-known member
That is what the Athanasian Creed says. So, you agree that the Lord is Jesus?



Yes...yes, the God of the Jews is Yahweh. In the context of the passages about the Lord's Prayer, the disciples just ask how to pray, not to pray to God specifically.

1.I always agreed to that,silly.But - just like you - i knew that from Tradition,not New Testament.

2. Their prayer was to God.Which mean Jahwe.End of discussion

Here,another Paul:


Philippians 4:6-9


6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

See - again God is God,and Jesus Messiah.And i knew that Jesus is God - but from catholic Creed,not New Testament.
Just like you knew that from teaching of your sect.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
1.I always agreed to that,silly.But - just like you - i knew that from Tradition,not New Testament.

2. Their prayer was to God.Which mean Jahwe.End of discussion

Here,another Paul:


Philippians 4:6-9


6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

See - again God is God,and Jesus Messiah.And i knew that Jesus is God - but from catholic Creed,not New Testament.
Just like you knew that from teaching of your sect.
What? The prayer is to god aka Father son and Holy Spirit they are all Yahweh.
 

ATP

Well-known member
What? The prayer is to god aka Father son and Holy Spirit they are all Yahweh.

And when exactly Jesus or one of his Apostles said so? Jesus teached prayer to God of Izrael - which mean Jahwe.

Here,another Paul:


Philippians 4:18-23


18 Indeed I [a]have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God. 19 And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. 20 Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Greeting and Blessing
21 Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren who are with me greet you. 22 All the saints greet you, but especially those who are of Caesar’s household.

23 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with [b]you all. Amen.

Again - God is God,Jesus is Messiah and Lord.

13,5:0,5.
Another easy victory.
 

Stargazer

Well-known member
1.I always agreed to that,silly.But - just like you - i knew that from Tradition,not New Testament.

You've denied it numerous times at this point, actually.

2. Their prayer was to God.Which mean Jahwe.End of discussion

How do you know that their prayer was to God?

And when exactly Jesus or one of his Apostles said so? Jesus teached prayer to God of Izrael - which mean Jahwe.

Interesting. Is Jesus the God of Israel?
 

ATP

Well-known member
You've denied it numerous times at this point, actually.



How do you know that their prayer was to God?



Interesting. Is Jesus the God of Israel?

1.Nope,i denied your claims that New Testament alone proof that Jesus is God.
2.Becouse they knew about special prayers to God used by John pupils,and asked for one for themselves.
3.That is funny heresy which you are claiming.Nope,they prayed to Jahwe - but using new prayer made by Jesus.Which named Jahwe as Father.

Here,beginning of another Paul:


1 Thessalonians 1:1-4

1 Paul, Silas[a] and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
Grace and peace to you.
Thanksgiving for the Thessalonians’ Faith
2 We always thank God for all of you and continually mention you in our prayers. 3 We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

4 For we know, brothers and sisters[b] loved by God, that he has chosen you,

So - God is God and Father,Jesus is Messiah and Lord.Not God.
 

ATP

Well-known member
What god is Jesus, @ATP?


Here:

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

But i knew that from catholic Creed,not New Testament.Just like you belive that Jesus is Jahwe becouse of your sect creed.

Here,another Paul for ya:

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10

8 The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, 9 for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Here God is God,and Jesus his son raised by God.Not God Himself.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Here:

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

But i knew that from catholic Creed,not New Testament.Just like you belive that Jesus is Jahwe becouse of your sect creed.

Here,another Paul for ya:

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10

8 The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, 9 for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Here God is God,and Jesus his son raised by God.Not God Himself.
Hey ATP let's switch this up so it stops going in circles. Why do you think and Catholics think that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the church?
 

ATP

Well-known member
When the creed identifies Jesus as God, what God is it talking about?

God and Man - BUT CERTAINLY NOT JAHWE,LIKE YOUR CHURCH BELIVE.

Here,another Paul:


1 Thessalonians 2:3-12


3 For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you. 4 On the contrary, we speak as those approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please people but God, who tests our hearts. 5 You know we never used flattery, nor did we put on a mask to cover up greed—God is our witness. 6 We were not looking for praise from people, not from you or anyone else, even though as apostles of Christ we could have asserted our authority. 7 Instead, we were like young children[a] among you.
Just as a nursing mother cares for her children, 8 so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well. 9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you. 10 You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed. 11 For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, 12 encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Again,God is God,Jesus is Messiah,not God.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Hey ATP let's switch this up so it stops going in circles. Why do you think and Catholics think that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the church?

Becouse Jesus clearly said so.Which he never did talking about being God - only suggested that.

Here,what Jesus said about himself and Peter:


Matthew 16:13-20


Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Here,Peter get keys to Kingdom,which basically is popes power.And,Jesus HIMSELF declared as nothing more then Messiah,not God.

If i were REAL protestant,i would belive in popes power,but not Jesus being God.But,they were created to gave church and its property to princes,so we have what we have.
Living weapons for long excint rulers.


Here,another Paul :


1 Thessalonians 2:13-20


13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]
Paul’s Longing to See the Thessalonians
17 But, brothers and sisters, when we were orphaned by being separated from you for a short time (in person, not in thought), out of our intense longing we made every effort to see you. 18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan blocked our way. 19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? 20 Indeed, you are our glory and joy.

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Messiah and Lord,not God.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
"God and Man" is a nonsensical answer to my question. You can't tell me what god the Creed is talking about.

You are unable to read easy text.
So,here for you:
one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.

In other words - Jesus is neither Jahwe or Holy Spirit,yet they all are Trinity.

Here,another Paul:


1 Thessalonians 3:9


9 How can we thank God enough for you in return for all the joy we have in the presence of our God because of you?

Again,God is God.
 

Stargazer

Well-known member
You are unable to read easy text.
So,here for you:
one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.

In other words - Jesus is neither Jahwe or Holy Spirit,yet they all are Trinity.

The text you just provided doesn't contain the name "Yahweh". You are making crap up. It's never specifically stated that the Father is Yahweh. You have to infer, correctly, that when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, and Jesus told them to pray to the Father, that implied that the Father is Yahweh. The disciples are Jews, and would only pray to the one God, who is Yahweh, so the Father must be the God Yahweh in order for the disciples to want to pray to him. By the same logic, then, one must infer that when the apostles identify Jesus as God (and they did identify Jesus as God), they must mean the same one God that they as Jews believe in. Which is Yahweh. Meaning Jesus is Yahweh.

The God the writers of the New Testament believed in is the God of Israel. And the New Testament identifies Jesus as God multiple times. To deny that is delusional.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Becouse Jesus clearly said so.Which he never did talking about being God - only suggested that.

Here,what Jesus said about himself and Peter:


Matthew 16:13-20


Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Here,Peter get keys to Kingdom,which basically is popes power.And,Jesus HIMSELF declared as nothing more then Messiah,not God.

If i were REAL protestant,i would belive in popes power,but not Jesus being God.But,they were created to gave church and its property to princes,so we have what we have.
Living weapons for long excint rulers.


Here,another Paul :


1 Thessalonians 2:13-20


13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]
Paul’s Longing to See the Thessalonians
17 But, brothers and sisters, when we were orphaned by being separated from you for a short time (in person, not in thought), out of our intense longing we made every effort to see you. 18 For we wanted to come to you—certainly I, Paul, did, again and again—but Satan blocked our way. 19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? 20 Indeed, you are our glory and joy.

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Messiah and Lord,not God.
Ok, there are two problems with your argument for the Bishop of Rome having supreme power. First the Bible says PETER was made the rock. Let's also assume this applies to Peter's descendants aka his successor. Now Peter had two titles yes he was the Bishop of Rome, but he was also the Bishop of Antioch, after his death those titles went to two diffrent people. Why would the Bishop of Rome become the rock, and not the Bishop of Antioch? Why is Linius the second Pope more important than Evodius the second Bishop of Antioch? The second issue is that the apostles all met early on and had a disagreement Peter's side lost. If Peter was the supreme leader all us Christians would be Jews. You could not eat pork, and you must get circumciced. Should I call someone to give you the snip? It's what Peter would have wanted.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter
 

ATP

Well-known member
The text you just provided doesn't contain the name "Yahweh". You are making crap up. It's never specifically stated that the Father is Yahweh. You have to infer, correctly, that when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, and Jesus told them to pray to the Father, that implied that the Father is Yahweh. The disciples are Jews, and would only pray to the one God, who is Yahweh, so the Father must be the God Yahweh in order for the disciples to want to pray to him. By the same logic, then, one must infer that when the apostles identify Jesus as God (and they did identify Jesus as God), they must mean the same one God that they as Jews believe in. Which is Yahweh. Meaning Jesus is Yahweh.

The God the writers of the New Testament believed in is the God of Israel. And the New Testament identifies Jesus as God multiple times. To deny that is delusional.

Jesus named God many times as Father.And,since Jzrael God name was Yahwe,not Zeus or Brahman,Jahwe is Father.
Apostles certainly identyfied Jesus as God - but,not in New Testament.
We knew that Jesus is God from Tradition.
And you belive that Jahwe is Jesus becouse of your Tradition.

Here,what Paul wrote:


1 Thessalonians 3:11-13

11 Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you. 12 May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you. 13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

Here,God which is Jahwe is named as Father.Jesus is named as Lord,not Jahwe.
If you really used sola scriptura,not your traditions,you would see that.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Ok, there are two problems with your argument for the Bishop of Rome having supreme power. First the Bible says PETER was made the rock. Let's also assume this applies to Peter's descendants aka his successor. Now Peter had two titles yes he was the Bishop of Rome, but he was also the Bishop of Antioch, after his death those titles went to two diffrent people. Why would the Bishop of Rome become the rock, and not the Bishop of Antioch? Why is Linius the second Pope more important than Evodius the second Bishop of Antioch? The second issue is that the apostles all met early on and had a disagreement Peter's side lost. If Peter was the supreme leader all us Christians would be Jews. You could not eat pork, and you must get circumciced. Should I call someone to give you the snip? It's what Peter would have wanted.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter

Yet still you have more argument for papacy in New Testament then for thesis that Jesus is God - not mention Jahwe.
Becouse if you read Matthew 16,13-20,Apostles belived that Jesus is ONLY MESSIAH.
We knew better - but thanks to Tradition,not New Testament.


1 Thessalonians 4:2-3


2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

Again - God is God,Jesus is Lord,not God.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Yet still you have more argument for papacy in New Testament then for thesis that Jesus is God - not mention Jahwe.
Becouse if you read Matthew 16,13-20,Apostles belived that Jesus is ONLY MESSIAH.
We knew better - but thanks to Tradition,not New Testament.


1 Thessalonians 4:2-3


2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

Again - God is God,Jesus is Lord,not God.
Yes but we are talking about the pope not if Jesus is god now. So why is the Bishop of Rome more important than the Bishop of Antioch?
 

Stargazer

Well-known member
Apostles certainly identyfied Jesus as God - but,not in New Testament.

Liar. The New Testament clearly identifies that Jesus is God. Your own Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms this. You are just blatantly lying at this point.

And you belive that Jahwe is Jesus becouse of your Tradition.

Another lie. You won't engage with anything I actually say. You only seem to be capable of lying.


Here,God which is Jahwe is named as Father.Jesus is named as Lord,not Jahwe.
If you really used sola scriptura,not your traditions,you would see that.

"Lord, not Yahweh". Are you even reading what you're typing? If you went back to the 1st century and asked them who is Lord - who is Kyrios - what do you think they would say?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Yes but we are talking about the pope not if Jesus is god now. So why is the Bishop of Rome more important than the Bishop of Antioch?

We are taking about how New Testament prove that Jesus is Jahwe/not at all!/ tread is about that,not papacy.
And i arleady proved that New Testament have more argument for papal powers then Jesus being God.

Here,another Paul:


1 Thessolonians 4,5-9

5 not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister.[b] The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. 7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.


9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.

Here,God is God,and Jesus Lord.Not God.
 

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