Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Bassoe

Well-known member
‘Strange ATL Religions’.

In fairness, we had some real aberrations IOTL, such as Christianity being met with "WTF?!" reactions from Jews and Romans at first — only to become the greatest success story in the history of religion, two-thousand years and counting.

Nonetheless, the question still stands, so any ATL mythologies or religious beliefs you can come up with that’d make OTL observers blink are what I’m looking for here. After all, OTL proved it was possible for something like Christianity to arise, so who knows what else could've emerged that OTL audiences couldn't wrap their heads around?
  • Joseph Smith had heard the various Solutrean hypothesis/mound builder theories floating around at the time and incorporated them. So Moroni and his civilization were the Solutreans, the giant skeletons people kept supposedly finding were Nephilim, etc.
  • In the event of a Greco-Roman industrial revolution, Hephaestus is believed to have continued in the family tradition, taking his revenge and becaming the new pantheon leader, overthrowing Zeus and the Olympians just as Zeus once overthrew Kronos and the Titans and Kronos overthrew his father Uranus. Hephaestus was never strong enough to face his tormentors directly, so he used his specialization to cheat so he wouldn't have to, defeating Ares, god of war by ending first glory and heroism in war by making a world where the greatest, most heroic warrior could be unceremoniously shot by a conscript who didn't even want to be there without even seeing the face of his enemy, then ending war altogether by inspiring the creation and distribution of weapons so terribly powerful neither side dared use them least their enemies retaliated in kind and so forth and so on.
  • Christianity which ditches the explicit claims of monotheism to successfully peacefully integrate into the preexisting Roman pantheon.
 

Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
  • Joseph Smith had heard the various Solutrean hypothesis/mound builder theories floating around at the time and incorporated them. So Moroni and his civilization were the Solutreans, the giant skeletons people kept supposedly finding were Nephilim, etc.
  • In the event of a Greco-Roman industrial revolution, Hephaestus is believed to have continued in the family tradition, taking his revenge and becaming the new pantheon leader, overthrowing Zeus and the Olympians just as Zeus once overthrew Kronos and the Titans and Kronos overthrew his father Uranus. Hephaestus was never strong enough to face his tormentors directly, so he used his specialization to cheat so he wouldn't have to, defeating Ares, god of war by ending first glory and heroism in war by making a world where the greatest, most heroic warrior could be unceremoniously shot by a conscript who didn't even want to be there without even seeing the face of his enemy, then ending war altogether by inspiring the creation and distribution of weapons so terribly powerful neither side dared use them least their enemies retaliated in kind and so forth and so on.
  • Christianity which ditches the explicit claims of monotheism to successfully peacefully integrate into the preexisting Roman pantheon.
Here's an Alternate What If: Pinochet wins the 1988 Plebiscite and stays as President of Chile until 11 March 1997. What are the ramifications of Chilean politics going forward? Will we see Aylwin and Frei Ragle potentially butterflied away in this scenario?
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
'German Language And Cultural Domination'.

Based it on this AH.com thread here, save for having the German language and cultural exports go global instead of Anglo-American ones.
 

Buba

A total creep
I have problems with German achieving linguistic and cultural world domination.
But having German language and culture become a world peer of French - and staying there - is IMO easily done. Simply no WWI.
So, IMO German language as one of the Big Two alongside French or a Big Three - English added - is practicaly a no brainer.
But getting German language to be as English had become after WWII? Tough ... maybe needs a pre-1848 or pre-1830 POD, for more colonial presence?
 
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Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
'German Language And Cultural Domination'.

Based it on this AH.com thread here, save for having the German language and cultural exports go global instead of Anglo-American ones.
I have problems with German achieving linguistic and cultural world domination.
But having German language and culture become a world peer of French - and staying there - is IMO easily done. Simply no WWI.
So, IMO German language as one of the Big Two alongside French or a Big Three - English added - is practicaly a no brainer.
But getting German language to be as English had become after WWII? Tough ... maybe needs a pre-1848 or pre-1830 POD, for more colonial presence?
As @Buba says it requires a fairly early POD to make it happen.
I see such two, first Germany is more to the west than to the east so that they have easier access to the Atlantic and at the same time their neighbors are able to stop them from further expansion.

Or a less fanciful POD dating back to antiquity. Just let the First Reich not succumb to such anarchy as OTL and at the same time not be so successful in conquering Slavic lands. That is, the lands beyond the Elbe are either Polish or there are independent kingdoms of the Western Slavs.
So that the First Reich would have no other outlet for its overpopulation than to seek lands where there is no strong power of some state capable of stopping it. Let this First Reich be a smaller but more centralized state with a homogeneous ethnic structure. That is, no Eastern Marches and no Bohemia within the Empire. No naturally eastward-thrusting eastern marches (That is, Brandenburg and Austria), one of which eventually united Germany. The other end of the Reich might become the most important one. Let's give Oldenburg as an example (this is just an example, of course), let it become the most important element thus forcing Germany to seek happiness overseas.
 

Buba

A total creep
Expounding on what @Batrix wrote - simply have Netherlands remain German, and not drift into a separate identity. So, a POD around 1400. Maybe Sigismund is kicked out from Hungary after his wife (who was the heiress of that country) dies, maybe John of Gorlitz does not die young? Anyway, either/or both brothers are not involved in Bohemian and Hungarian events and and pour their energy into Luxemburger empire building (clashing with Burgundy).
Either way the Netherlands are united by an eastern oriented, German identifying House.
Another route - have the children of Albert Habsburg live and thus Netherlands are reabsorbed into Germany in the 1st half of the 17h century.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
'German Language And Cultural Domination'.

Based it on this AH.com thread here, save for having the German language and cultural exports go global instead of Anglo-American ones.
Dunno if it is true or not,but i once read,that after 1776 german language almost become official USA language.So many german settlers were there.
If that happened,we would have that.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Dunno if it is true or not,but i once read,that after 1776 german language almost become official USA language.So many german settlers were there.
If that happened,we would have that.
Yeah, I have heard the same thing.
 
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Skallagrim

Well-known member
Dunno if it is true or not,but i once read,that after 1776 german language almost become official USA language.So many german settlers were there.
If that happened,we would have that.

Yeah, I have heard the same thing.

It's a myth. There was a proposal to publish Federal laws in German as well as English. This was in 1795. It wasn't adopted.

Keep in mind, back then, there were under 10% German-speakers in the USA. A meaningful minority, but not some huge block on par with English-speakers.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Expounding on what @Batrix wrote - simply have Netherlands remain German, and not drift into a separate identity. So, a POD around 400. Maybe Sigismund is kicked out from Hungary after his wife (who was the heiress of that country) dies, maybe John of Gorlitz does not die young? Anyway, either/or both brothers are not involved in Bohemian and Hungarian events and and pour their energy into Luxemburger empire building (clashing with Burgundy).
Either way the Netherlands are united by an eastern oriented, German identifying House.
Another route - have the children of Albert Habsburg live and thus Netherlands are reabsorbed into Germany in the 1st half of the 17h century.
Even if they remain German I don't think there will be much of an impact, you will still have the Reformation and counter-reformation, the 30 years war still happens as do the Anglo-Dutch Wars and you will still see the rise of France and Britain as superior naval powers, with them eventually pushing out the Dutch from most of their colonies.
If anything, this will make the French even more eager to balkanize the German part of the world as they did in OTL.
 

ATP

Well-known member
It's a myth. There was a proposal to publish Federal laws in German as well as English. This was in 1795. It wasn't adopted.

Keep in mind, back then, there were under 10% German-speakers in the USA. A meaningful minority, but not some huge block on par with English-speakers.
Pity - it would be funny to see american behaving exactly the same way as they did in OTL,but speaking german.
If proposal was adopted,german still would be federal language with english.
More german cultural influence in that case.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Even if they remain German I don't think there will be much of an impact, you will still have the Reformation and counter-reformation, the 30 years war still happens as do the Anglo-Dutch Wars and you will still see the rise of France and Britain as superior naval powers, with them eventually pushing out the Dutch from most of their colonies.
If anything, this will make the French even more eager to balkanize the German part of the world as they did in OTL.

Those are problems but with an early butterfly a lot could change. With a more westerly and more centralised 'German' state France could be a lot weaker and less of a threat. Especially if as well as not getting dragged too deeply into eastern lands they avoid getting dragged too much into Italy as well. You could well butterfly Charlemagne here or even much of the rise of the Franks to dominate Gaul. [Although unless their pretty much wiped out totally they still have the advantage of being pagan and hence more easily converted to Catholicism rather than being dominated by an Arian ruling class.]

With England it could go a lot of ways although its possibly still a major rival. However if say no Norman invasion the English probably stay more insular and also more connected with Germany and Scandinavia and hence could even end up as a component of a broader Germanic culture if not a broader political alliance/bloc.

Its not going to be easy, especially since a stronger and unified Germany is likely to be drawn into expansion into neighbouring lands, especially to the east and south east which would provide land for expansion and also draw them away from the North Sea. Plus England/Britain, an Iberian state and whatever happens with France are going to make for potential rivals.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Those are problems but with an early butterfly a lot could change. With a more westerly and more centralised 'German' state France could be a lot weaker and less of a threat. Especially if as well as not getting dragged too deeply into eastern lands they avoid getting dragged too much into Italy as well. You could well butterfly Charlemagne here or even much of the rise of the Franks to dominate Gaul. [Although unless their pretty much wiped out totally they still have the advantage of being pagan and hence more easily converted to Catholicism rather than being dominated by an Arian ruling class.]

With England it could go a lot of ways although its possibly still a major rival. However if say no Norman invasion the English probably stay more insular and also more connected with Germany and Scandinavia and hence could even end up as a component of a broader Germanic culture if not a broader political alliance/bloc.

Its not going to be easy, especially since a stronger and unified Germany is likely to be drawn into expansion into neighbouring lands, especially to the east and south east which would provide land for expansion and also draw them away from the North Sea. Plus England/Britain, an Iberian state and whatever happens with France are going to make for potential rivals.
Given how centralized the HRE was, I doubt that, from one account the Krauts were very hobbit like before most got killed in the 30 years war and then Freidrich the Great was made head lemming adn gave them a taste for S&M and boots.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Given how centralized the HRE was, I doubt that, from one account the Krauts were very hobbit like before most got killed in the 30 years war and then Freidrich the Great was made head lemming adn gave them a taste for S&M and boots.
Too true.Germans were quite nice people till prussians deformed them.
 

DarthOne

☦️
Too true.Germans were quite nice people till prussians deformed them.
I see it’s still WW1 propaganda hour and you being salty over in Poland.

The only real difference between you guys and Prussia is that you were sandwiched between it and Russia. Where as they’re were sandwiched between Poland, Russia and France.

Had Poland been the stronger nation and had been able to sign a deal with France, I’m pretty sure you and them would have done to Prussia/Germany what they and Russia did to Poland.
 
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Circle of Willis

Well-known member
What if Batista successfully crushed the Castro brothers and their colleagues in Cuba? Would this prevent the Revolution from taking place?
The Cuban Revolution and ensuing Communist regime, yes. A Cuban Revolution at some later point in time, probably not. My understanding of Batista is that he was pretty much an open crook, very deeply in league with the Mafia and American corporate interests, and completely lacking in legitimacy to govern. This man seized power in a coup, suspended the constitution, held obviously fake elections, and consistently responded to dissent with harsh repression rather than try to treat the root causes, like the stagnating economy & surging unemployment rates; no wonder people were lining up for years to take a crack at him even before Castro actually pulled it off.

Years before Castro's final victory, another guy named Ramón Barquín already tried and failed to overthrow him - and Barquín was an elite Cuban Army officer with strong ties to the American defense establishment who was clearly deeply trusted by Batista himself, hardly a Communist firebrand. There were also non-Communist rebel groups which fought against Batista and, in that specific case, got massacred trying to assassinate him at his palace. Clearly one didn't have to be a commie to hate Batista, just a Cuban patriot: and if Castro failed, just as Barquín and Echeverría failed before him, somebody else was inevitably going to try again and again until Batista's finally dead or overthrown.

Castro failing and somebody else succeeding in his stead would probably be the best for Cuba in the long run, anyway. Certainly Barquín and Echeverría didn't seem to be bad men. A victorious non-Communist rebellion that installs a regime which purges the corruption of the Batista years, without also going full retard re: socialism and getting embargo'd by the US, can only mean a more prosperous, less isolated and almost certainly actually more democratic Cuba that's better integrated into the American sphere & international politics generally today.
 

ATP

Well-known member
I see it’s still WW1 propaganda hour and you being salty over in Poland.

The only real difference between you guys and Prussia is that you were sandwiched between it an Russia. We’re as they’re we’re sandwiched between Poland, Russia and France. Had Poland been the stronger nation and had been able to sign a deal with France, I’m pretty sure you and them would have done to Prussia/Germany what they and Russia did to Poland.
Well,no.When we were strong we could crush prussia,and never did so.
We could do that even when they betrayed us/they were Poand vassals/ and joined Swedes.
But,we did notching,become weaker and weaker,and when we were so weak that could not fight anybody,brave prussians proposed Crime of Partition.

You forget,that both united germany and strong Moscov are fresh things - before that Poland was not sandwiched between anytching ,and could do whatever we pleased with prussia.
Sadly for entire world,we were mercifull.
First we payed for thet,then other german states conqered by prussians,and lastly entire world when prussians started world wars.

But now,at least,entire world knew,that united by Berlin germany mean world war.
Which would arleady happened,if not for american occupants there.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
'AHC: More Landslide US Presidential Elections Post-2000'.

Sure, Obama '08 may have won handily in both counts, but I wouldn't call that a landslide anywhere near FDR '36, Nixon '72, Reagan '84, or even Bush '88.
 

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