Israel ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡± State of Israel Thread

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
You people don't seem to understand how small Israel is, or how ridiculously narrow Israel would be if it returns to 1967 borders.

elc5izr8c4c91.jpg


This picture of Tel Aviv was taken from the west bank, a territory that would be in Palestinian hands if Israel were to withdraw to 1967 lines. The same Palestinians who are very fond of homemade rockets, mortars, grad rockets and more advanced Iranian-made ballistic ordinance.

No sane country would agree to this.

Edit: I've now read that this pic was technically taken from the Israeli side of the green line but within several hundred feet from the green line, for the nitpickers among you.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Yes, they are, and that doesn't mean they don't have a point. Most Arabs, after their long history with various islamic empires don't have specific and strong national identities formed, which is also why movements like panarabism and islamism get a foothold easily with them.

Where did you get that info? Some weird political site grinding an axe?
This implies that, same as the PLO guy says, that genetically all the Arab populations of the region don't have major differences between them, so a claim that they can be so precisely attributed to the very small, specific area is very suspicious.

1.rather tribes loyalty.
2.DNA chcompared to those caananites from bronze age.forget source,as usual.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
1.rather tribes loyalty.
Which only complicates things further, because tribe-states aren't really feasible and aren't something anyone is asking for. In practice the tribes get swept to go along with more general movements like islamism.
2.DNA chcompared to those caananites from bronze age.forget source,as usual.
But if you reach that far into the past, won't everyone from most of the whole Mediterranean basin today have similar DNA more or less, as that's from before Islam, before even Rome, and a lot of population moving and mixing happened since then?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Which only complicates things further, because tribe-states aren't really feasible and aren't something anyone is asking for. In practice the tribes get swept to go along with more general movements like islamism.

But if you reach that far into the past, won't everyone from most of the whole Mediterranean basin today have similar DNA more or less, as that's from before Islam, before even Rome, and a lot of population moving and mixing happened since then?

1.True,like in Europe all were christians once.But - we have nations now.And they try imitate that.
2.Depend on place.Germans,for example,replaced people who lived there earlier,just like slavic people.Even Celts are not natives.
But,palestinian are rare case of polulace who lived there from bronze age - changing religion 4 times.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
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1.True,like in Europe all were christians once.But - we have nations now.And they try imitate that.
2.Depend on place.Germans,for example,replaced people who lived there earlier,just like slavic people.Even Celts are not natives.
But,palestinian are rare case of polulace who lived there from bronze age - changing religion 4 times.
Seems like you fell for a good propaganda piece - good because it's true... just not the whole truth.
All the region's populations and Jews have very similar genetics.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
You people don't seem to understand how small Israel is, or how ridiculously narrow Israel would be if it returns to 1967 borders.

elc5izr8c4c91.jpg


This picture of Tel Aviv was taken from the west bank, a territory that would be in Palestinian hands if Israel were to withdraw to 1967 lines. The same Palestinians who are very fond of homemade rockets, mortars, grad rockets and more advanced Iranian-made ballistic ordinance.

No sane country would agree to this.

Edit: I've now read that this pic was technically taken from the Israeli side of the green line but within several hundred feet from the green line, for the nitpickers among you.

If Israel wanted to expand significantly beyond the 1967 borders, not just a few settlements here and there, then it should have done so back in 1948-1949. That was a golden opportunity for Israel to conquer the West Bank, specifically after Israel made peace with Egypt and before it made peace with Jordan. Back then, there were 100,000 Israeli troops ready for this purpose in contrast to only 12,000 Jordanian troops defending the West Bank.

You're saying that if Israel will withdraw from the West Bank, then the Palestinians could fire rockets at Tel Aviv, Yes? But wouldn't that simply cause Israel to invade the West Bank and impose regime change there, similar to what the US did in Iraq back in 2003?
 

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
If Israel wanted to expand significantly beyond the 1967 borders, not just a few settlements here and there, then it should have done so back in 1948-1949. That was a golden opportunity for Israel to conquer the West Bank, specifically after Israel made peace with Egypt and before it made peace with Jordan. Back then, there were 100,000 Israeli troops ready for this purpose in contrast to only 12,000 Jordanian troops defending the West Bank.

You're saying that if Israel will withdraw from the West Bank, then the Palestinians could fire rockets at Tel Aviv, Yes? But wouldn't that simply cause Israel to invade the West Bank and impose regime change there, similar to what the US did in Iraq back in 2003?
"Simply", LOL. The IDF is projecting thousands of dead for an invasion of Gaza, and you think that an invasion of the much larger territory with the more mountaineous terrain is going to be "simple".
 

King Arts

Well-known member
That's just outright embarassing.


It’s not that bad. Honestly it’s not great but I thought it was like Saudi Arabia playing the Russian anthem where my ears would bleed they are acceptable.

Palestine is NOT a country. They're NOT going to be an independent country and with all due respect to Biden: FUCK the two state solution!
One can you define what a country is? Cause if they control their own internal policies inside their borders they are a nation. They might not be independent and might have to be a vassal of Israel for Israel to accept it so that Israel feels safe but a real country can be a vassal.
Also why are you a against the two state solution? Does that mean you want a one state solution with apartheid? Or where Israel is swallowed by Palestine, want that Israel to stop being a democracy? Or do you want one side to genocide the other. Cause realistically those are the options.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Yes, they are, and that doesn't mean they don't have a point. Most Arabs, after their long history with various islamic empires don't have specific and strong national identities formed, which is also why movements like panarabism and islamism get a foothold easily with them.

Where did you get that info? Some weird political site grinding an axe?
This implies that, same as the PLO guy says, that genetically all the Arab populations of the region don't have major differences between them, so a claim that they can be so precisely attributed to the very small, specific area is very suspicious.
You generally support western interventions don’t you I don’t want to say neo con. But if what you say is true the. Western nations should not have destabilize Arab nations and prevent them from uniting into a larger pan Arab nation. Because if what you say is what you believe you should be ok with all the Muslims world except turkey and Iran merging into one state.

Yeah, but then Israel would have to give up half of Jewish Jerusalem, and it will never agree to that.
Israel should have been a international city in the first place ruled by 3 people one Jew one Christian and one Muslim. That high council triumvirate would be the fairest option.

Really, I want all Palestinian territory to go to Israel and the Arab countries to take back in their citizens.
Do you have any proof that Palestinians were ever citizens of Egypt Syria etc?
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
You generally support western interventions don’t you I don’t want to say neo con.
It's about 50/50 overall, depends which and what for.
But if what you say is true the. Western nations should not have destabilize Arab nations
Silly propaganda meme. Destabilizing implies something was stable before. Arab countries cannot be accurately described with that term.
and prevent them from uniting into a larger pan Arab nation.
And who prevented them? They had Pan-Arabism before islamism got cool, but that fell apart due to them constantly starting and losing wars, oil money jealousy, leadership disputes and so on, not mythical "western destabilization".
Because if what you say is what you believe you should be ok with all the Muslims world except turkey and Iran merging into one state.
Since when all Muslims other than Turkey and Iran are Arabs? Are Tatars Arabs? Are Pakistanis Arabs? Are Somalis Arabs? Are Malaysians Arabs?
 

King Arts

Well-known member
It's about 50/50 overall, depends which and what for.

Silly propaganda meme. Destabilizing implies something was stable before. Arab countries cannot be accurately described with that term.

And who prevented them? They had Pan-Arabism before islamism got cool, but that fell apart due to them constantly starting and losing wars, oil money jealousy, leadership disputes and so on, not mythical "western destabilization".

Since when all Muslims other than Turkey and Iran are Arabs? Are Tatars Arabs? Are Pakistanis Arabs? Are Somalis Arabs? Are Malaysians Arabs?
Ok, relavent muslims that actually contributed to society and history. The other ones are unknown. Anyway are you denying that the US has prevented Arab nations from merging? I can think of one example off the top of my head the first Iraq war, if the U.S. did not intervene a smaller Arab state would have been swallowed by a larger one. Wars would go on empires would rise, and eventually one would reach the height of it's natural borders, empires rise and fall. Eventually if you let nature play out it's course an equilibrium would be reached.
 

Marduk

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Moderator
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Not Aszkenazi jews,which are majority in fake Izrael.They are chazars.
Which is just plain wrong and sounds like some myths repeated in certain circles. Like genetic arguments?
These studies also demonstrated that the history of the Jewish Diasporas could be observed in the genomes of Jewish people by patterns of admixture. A high degree of European admixture (30–60 %) was observed among Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Italian and Syrian Jews. The North African Jewish groups demonstrated North African and Middle Eastern admixture with varying European admixture. The proportion of European admixture among North African Jewish groups increased from east to west, with Moroccan Jews demonstrating the highest proportion. In contrast, the corresponding non-Jewish North African host populations demonstrated substantially higher inferred North African ancestry and less European ancestry.

The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots. The genetic clusters formed by each of these non-Jewish Middle Eastern groups reflect their own histories of endogamy. Their proximity to one another and to European and Syrian Jews suggested a shared genetic history of related Semitic and non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestors who followed different religious and tribal affiliations. Earlier studies of Israeli Jewish, Palestinian and Druze populations made a similar observation by demonstrating the proximity of these two non-Jewish populations to Ashkenazi and Iraqi Jews (Rosenberg et al. 2001; Kopelman et al. 2009).
TL;DR Ashkenazi Jews have similar genetics to other Jews, just with a bit more European admixture.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
Subforum Ban - Politics & Current Affairs - Rule 1A: Genocide Advocacy
You people don't seem to understand how small Israel is, or how ridiculously narrow Israel would be if it returns to 1967 borders.

elc5izr8c4c91.jpg


This picture of Tel Aviv was taken from the west bank, a territory that would be in Palestinian hands if Israel were to withdraw to 1967 lines. The same Palestinians who are very fond of homemade rockets, mortars, grad rockets and more advanced Iranian-made ballistic ordinance.

No sane country would agree to this.

Edit: I've now read that this pic was technically taken from the Israeli side of the green line but within several hundred feet from the green line, for the nitpickers among you.
This is why I do NOT see a so-called two-state solution happening! Those Palestinians are TERRORISTS & need to be exterminated by any means necessary.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
If the Arab countries don't want their fellow Arabs as citizens they can keep them in refugee camps in their countries.
Why do you call them their fellow?
Can't someone make just a stupid an argument? If the white countries don't want their fellow whites(the jews) as citizens then they can keep them in refugee camps in their countries.


Egyptians are different than Syrians. The Egyptians have thousands of years of history, their blood goes back to the time of the Pharaoh's. And no most of the local Egyptian population was not wiped out in the Muslim invasions. The Copts have a closer link to Ancient Egypt since they did not abandon their culture as much(except for polytheism) But they still have ties and remnants from that time, and the blood is still theirs.
 
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