bintananth
behind a desk
I didn't make it that far before thinking "this BS isn't worth my time."
History What are some of your most contraversial takes on history?
- Thread starter Winston Bush
- Start date
I skipped to the part about debt slavery/peonage, which was interesting. He had an interesting idea, but he came at it from a woke place, which was annoying to slog through. But tl;dr: basically there were slaves in America up until September 1942. Not talking sharecropping, but people that were trapped in illegal debt slavery/peonage, whose controllers (I refuse to call them owners or masters) would argue to courts that it was slavery (as there was no law punishing slavery at the time, but peonage was banned), and get off.
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Yeah, and also the Supreme court striking down all the civil rights laws was goddamn annoying too. The slaughterhouse cases were wrongly decided. Justice Thomas has it right: bring back the privileges and immunities clause!
There's a theory that people in Northwestern Europe evolved differently over the centuries due to the Catholic Church's centuries-long ban on cousin marriage:
This paper argues that Northwestern Europeans are WEIRD:
Western
Educated
Industrialized
Rich
Democratic
And are also more trusting of strangers, more honest, less corrupt, less clannish, et cetera. The blogger HBD Chick also wrote about this, where she talked about the differences between Europeans who are located inside and outside of the Hajnal Line:
hbdchick.wordpress.com
en.wikipedia.org
Northwestern Europeans (those who are located inside of the Hajnal Line) also tend to shine when it comes to things such as low corruption, science and technology, and high patent rates:
Other than perhaps Ashkenazi Jews, I can't imagine of anyone else who did more for humanity than Northwestern Europeans and their descendants. This is also evidenced in Charles Murray's book Human Accomplishment:
hbdchick.wordpress.com
This paper argues that Northwestern Europeans are WEIRD:
Western
Educated
Industrialized
Rich
Democratic
And are also more trusting of strangers, more honest, less corrupt, less clannish, et cetera. The blogger HBD Chick also wrote about this, where she talked about the differences between Europeans who are located inside and outside of the Hajnal Line:
big summary post on the hajnal line
*update below* i thought i’d do a big summary post on the hajnal line, just to have everything in once place. (^_^) sorry, there is no tl;dr, so go get yourself a cup of coffee. i’ll wa…
hbdchick.wordpress.com
Hajnal line - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Northwestern Europeans (those who are located inside of the Hajnal Line) also tend to shine when it comes to things such as low corruption, science and technology, and high patent rates:
Other than perhaps Ashkenazi Jews, I can't imagine of anyone else who did more for humanity than Northwestern Europeans and their descendants. This is also evidenced in Charles Murray's book Human Accomplishment:
“core europe” and human accomplish-ment
uncle bob beat me to this (hey uncle bob! *waves* (^_^) ). i’ve been meaning to post about human accomplishment in core europe ever since agnostic posted about it last month on his blog. here…
hbdchick.wordpress.com
Not sure about the rest of the theory, but the whole "no making incest babies with your cousins" thing does make sense.
Over a few centuries? Yeah, genetic issues (diseases and the like) from such causes are unlikely to be as prevalent because you're not fucking your genetically-related cousins.
Yeah, this really has to do with the USSR/totalitarianism. Note Spain also being screwed cause Franco's legacy, despite being highly Catholic. The explanation offered doesn't explain Poland or Hungary, for example.
Yeah, I was going to say, the border between things was very reminiscent of the old Iron Curtain line in Europe. As such, I feel like the recent destructive influence of Communism that is barely a generation removed might have a greater impact immediate impact as opposed to genetic drift.
Also, does China and Japan have similar prohibitions on cousin marriages? As both countries historically have been highly innovative, Japan especially in the 20th century.
Well, it does match up with the borders of old East Germany: It was a communist shit-hole for over fifty years, so it's no wonder that there are fewer people in science and technology in that former region now.Looking at one of the posted maps...
I was rubbing my eyes a bit, and wondering what century the data was for.
Look at Germany and Poland there.
I can see the outline of East Germany - and of the Kaiserriech
It's gonna take more than half a century for that to change.
I am sadly surprised about Greece, Southern Italy, and Portugal, though. The hot spots in Spain are a surprise, given Franco's legacy fucking things up as much as communism did.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
What is most surprising to me is northern Croatia. I expected it to be deep red.
sillygoose
Well-known member
Might be the EU effect: educated people leaving the periphery for the industrial center in search of higher wages and better lifestyle.
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Surprised? We're not. For a nice couple of elections we've clearly seen partition boundaries if we look at who votes for whom. The former Cogrens Poland and Galicia are definitely more conservative than the former post-German areas. The infrastructure remains even though the Germans are long gone.
This is best seen by the network of railroads.
Can you tell where Germany was, where Russia was, and where Austria was?
Interestingly, the whole of Congress Poland accounted for one-third of all industry and prosperity in the whole damn Russian Empire.
And Galicia was a complete shithole and the worst developed partition. Most Americans of Polish descent are descendants of those people who emigrated from Galicia.
Ironically, because before the partitions it was a very rich region, the richest in all of Poland, but that's because it was connected to the country on the part of the Carpathians where it should be. That's why the Austrians took it away.
Fortunately, we were able to fix it but only after more than a century of hard and persistent work.
So that one, thanks Austria, you've certainly civilized us.
Okay, and now my controversial opinion number two. The partition of Poland was an aberration and sheer bad luck combined with the King's lack of will to fight. Repeating this in every alternative history is not only the height of laziness but also stupidity. And Russia occupying Polish territory is also a symptom of laziness as the same with Germany.
And here is another controversial opinion, poking a spit. Namely, contrary to common opinion, it was not Germany who usually beat Poland, but Poland beat Germany. From over 11 wars between Poland and Germany. Germans won twice. Two fucking times. Almost all of which took place in the 11th century. 😛
Another opinion is constantly making that Poland always has to go to PLC or something else. As if we weren't a despotic monarchy with a huge centralization until the times of the last Piast. No, Poland does not have to create something like Commowealth, it can always be simply France of the East without breaking up into districts ruled by feudal warlords.
It is enough for Casimir III to have a son.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Here's my controversial take on history:
The Middle Ages were a far more sophisticated and advanced time than anyone gives it credit for. The Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians could not have built Cathedrals. Yes, some of their structures were bigger, but the amount of craftsmanship and detail needed to build something like Salisbury Cathedral was on another level. And a Roman legionary, a military engineer, would have been totally stumped a castle.
The Middle Ages were a far more sophisticated and advanced time than anyone gives it credit for. The Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians could not have built Cathedrals. Yes, some of their structures were bigger, but the amount of craftsmanship and detail needed to build something like Salisbury Cathedral was on another level. And a Roman legionary, a military engineer, would have been totally stumped a castle.
Ash's Boomstick
Well-known member
The so-called dark ages are becoming more and more realised as being far less backward than believed before as well, so the ideas that the Middle ages were more advanced has some traction because they built on what came before.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Classic case in point of that is the Norsemen being far more than hairy barbarians. These chaps practiced essentially a far more functional version of Athenian democracy whilst their seamen sailed across the sodding Atlantic in flat bottomed boats. Not quite as "mad lad" as the Polynesians trundling around the Pacific in canoes, but it's up there.
Ash's Boomstick
Well-known member
Precisely, the major difference is that they were regional advances as opposed to large scale ones that allowed everyone to benefit, some would be lost because of that and later rediscovered, others would be the building blocks of new ideas. Its quite simply that people didn't always write it all down but it doesn't mean it didn't survive.
I thought about Communism as an explanation but then I saw that East Germany still produces a lot of patents, so I suspected that the Hajnal Line explanation makes more sense.