Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
Capitalism might not cause degeneracy, but it certainly encourages it.
In the absence of moral men, absolutely.. but the amoral will turn any system into a hell on earth. Capitalism is not a political system, it is a basic function of human nature -- the desire to be rewarded for our efforts, to keep the fruits of our labor, and to trade them with others so that our material needs are met and our wants are often fulfilled.

When men are deprived of the fruits of their labor, they labor less, and some will not labor at all. Communism is famous for this, having beggared many nations, but it's not the only road to ruin. Any form of excessive taxation, whether through lawful taxes or corruption, has the same effect, and what is 'excessive' is decided personally by every man.

The solution to the threat of degeneracy is Christianity. Nothing less will suffice. Nationalism can help, but a nationalist regime run by the amoral ends up just as awful in the long run, i.e. China.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
F99Tk1ui.jpeg
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
not really, it is mostly socialist policies "safety nets" that allow people to get away with degenerate behavior.
This ignores that capitalism does not cause it. Capitalism has no pretensions of being anything more or less than an economic system. It's the moral system you coordinate with it that determines what you're going to get.

The rampant degeneracy isn't caused by capitalism, it's caused by abandoning God and christian morality.

Actually, it does cause degeneracy due to two factors:
1) propensity towards concentration of wealth (which then leads to socialism, as big corporations want a big state).
2) propensity towards materialism (which then destroys the spirituality and tradition, and also leads to socialism)

Greatest danger for traditional culture in Europe never was Marx, it was modern lifestyle - including McDonalds, Pepsi and other imports from the US. Marx was a consequence which led to further consequences, not a cause in and by himself.

Also, you are assuming that socialism is separate from capitalism, or opposed to it, which is not true, and has not been for quite some time. Unless we define capitalism in a way that would exclude massive state and massive corporations, in which case we can simply say that capitalism does not exist anymore in any country in the West, and has not existed since early 1900s at least.

EDIT: Also, look at what big corporations are doing:
1) Supporting mass immigration to reduce local wages.
2) Supporting globalization, global culture and other forms of degeneracy so they can sell the same stuff all over the globe.
3) Supporting large government which can implement the policies they want implemented.

Large corporations are the greatest proponents of leftism in the modern world.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
Actually, it does cause degeneracy due to two factors:
1) propensity towards concentration of wealth (which then leads to socialism, as big corporations want a big state).
2) propensity towards materialism (which then destroys the spirituality and tradition, and also leads to socialism)

Greatest danger for traditional culture in Europe never was Marx, it was modern lifestyle - including McDonalds, Pepsi and other imports from the US. Marx was a consequence which led to further consequences, not a cause in and by himself.

Also, you are assuming that socialism is separate from capitalism, or opposed to it, which is not true, and has not been for quite some time. Unless we define capitalism in a way that would exclude massive state and massive corporations, in which case we can simply say that capitalism does not exist anymore in any country in the West, and has not existed since early 1900s at least.

EDIT: Also, look at what big corporations are doing:
1) Supporting mass immigration to reduce local wages.
2) Supporting globalization, global culture and other forms of degeneracy so they can sell the same stuff all over the globe.
3) Supporting large government which can implement the policies they want implemented.

Large corporations are the greatest proponents of leftism in the modern world.
But why are you conflating corporations, government-created legal constructs, with capitalism? Such constructs are utterly orthogonal to capitalism; capitalism exists without them, and did in the United States until Rockefeller.

Further, concentration of wealth is normal under any healthy system, because people are not equal and some are much, much, much more useful to society than the average joe. That's fine -- as long as they have Christian morals and are thus receptive to charity and investing said wealth back into the community. If they genuinely love their fellow man, it's no problemo.

Standing in contrast is the modern day money-worshipping careerist, who hoards wealth, invests thoughtlessly for whatever offers the highest return, and hires accountants to play bitch games with the IRS.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
But why are you conflating corporations, government-created legal constructs, with capitalism? Such constructs are utterly orthogonal to capitalism; capitalism exists without them, and did in the United States until Rockefeller.

Because that is how the things stand right now. We might as well wish for a return to feudalism, or to old aristocratic or rural-democratic republics which littered Mediterranean during the Middle Ages.

Further, concentration of wealth is normal under any healthy system, because people are not equal and some are much, much, much more useful to society than the average joe. That's fine -- as long as they have Christian morals and are thus receptive to charity and investing said wealth back into the community. If they genuinely love their fellow man, it's no problemo.

Standing in contrast is the modern day money-worshipping careerist, who hoards wealth, invests thoughtlessly for whatever offers the highest return, and hires accountants to play bitch games with the IRS.

Modernity destroys morality by its very nature, though. You don't need Christian morals, specifically - Roman and Greek rich men tended to do a lot of good for the society. But as society as a whole gets richer, it also decays. We are literally repeating what Western Roman Empire already went through. And Christianity and love for the fellow man did not save it.

It is a fallacy to blame the response of an enemy on the victim.

Large corporations are neither a victim nor an enemy of the system.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
Because that is how the things stand right now. We might as well wish for a return to feudalism, or to old aristocratic or rural-democratic republics which littered Mediterranean during the Middle Ages.
Capitalism cannot be faulted for government intervention in commerce. That is a government problem, which in the United States means a people problem. We sat on our thumbs and allowed this shit for a century, all the while pouring wealth into companies that work against national interests and consuming media propaganda created by people who hate us.

Modernity destroys morality by its very nature, though. You don't need Christian morals, specifically - Roman and Greek rich men tended to do a lot of good for the society. But as society as a whole gets richer, it also decays. We are literally repeating what Western Roman Empire already went through. And Christianity and love for the fellow man did not save it.
We really do need Christian morals. Both Greek and Roman societies were shot through with all manner of perversion and cruelty. These were societies in which deliberately torturing people to death, publicly, over a span of days, was considered normal. They were worse than modern day China, at least the CCP perceives a need to hide much of their cruelty; the Romans put it on display and called it good.

What we are repeating is an oft-observed cycle:

a9t53y.png


We have full bellies, eyes and ears filled with every manner of entertainment, so it is now easy to tune out stern moral warnings that would drag us away from our indulgences. Doing something about moral failings would be hard... God forbid, it might even damage our careers! This cannot be laid at the feat of capitalism, or modernity, because it has happened many times without either.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
This.
THis is the issue. Yall are Ignorant. Because you aren't willing to think "Maybe he was wrong. Maybe he didn't know as much as he thought." I have more training then he did, and I am enlisted in the Army. The whole thing he leaked, was a nothing burger that he would have had explained to him if he went through the proper channels, but if he felt it was more then the normal context, it would have gone up and he would be declared a whistleblower.

Again, I am done, because an argument one can not defend, is an argument one should not be in.
You haven't met my big sis Euphie. She's probably set off the a nuclear disaster worse than Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Three Mile Island entirely by accident.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
And how you know that the glut of federal backing of student loans has helped make most degrees worthless.
Stuff like that started because managers wanted to hire someone they knew and gave HR a list of qualifications that is impossible for applicants to meet so they could go through the motions. HR just ran with it and, welp, here we are.

EDIT: For one job I was hired for the interview would have been just my new boss and I having drinks at bar if she didn't have to make HR happy. She asked me for a list of esoteric stuff I could say yes to so I'd be the only one HR couldn't reject.
 
Last edited:

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Capitalism cannot be faulted for government intervention in commerce. That is a government problem, which in the United States means a people problem. We sat on our thumbs and allowed this shit for a century, all the while pouring wealth into companies that work against national interests and consuming media propaganda created by people who hate us.

It actually can. Every single system holds the seeds of its own destruction. Likewise, unfettered capitalism invariably leads to socialism. While this depends on the exact niche - there are a few areas where small companies are more competitive than large ones - in major areas where larger companies are more competitive, result of unfettered capitalism is that companies merge and grow in size, and grow so large that they start influencing government. And once that happens, they destroy the free market by making government introduce more and more regulation - which automatically favours large entities as they have easier time either complying with it or else simply bribing officials.

We really do need Christian morals. Both Greek and Roman societies were shot through with all manner of perversion and cruelty. These were societies in which deliberately torturing people to death, publicly, over a span of days, was considered normal. They were worse than modern day China, at least the CCP perceives a need to hide much of their cruelty; the Romans put it on display and called it good.

What we are repeating is an oft-observed cycle:

a9t53y.png
a9t53y.png


We have full bellies, eyes and ears filled with every manner of entertainment, so it is now easy to tune out stern moral warnings that would drag us away from our indulgences. Doing something about moral failings would be hard... God forbid, it might even damage our careers! This cannot be laid at the feat of capitalism, or modernity, because it has happened many times without either.

Cruelty was normal in premodern world. You know how Byzantines blinded and/or cut off noses or ears of the political prisoners / deposed emperors? By standards of the time, that was kindness. Yes, Christianity did improve situation, compared to Mediterranean pagan religions - but it was not alone in that, albeit admittedly greatest strides in non-Christian areas happened in China.

Also, it can easily be said that Christianity - modern Christianity, at least - has gone too far in the opposite direction. Whereas its call against cruelty was a good thing back when cruelty was normal, in the modern world it may not be so good in many situations. A society that is not capable of properly applied cruelty is not capable of existence.

When they try to use force to prevent competition, they are in fact enemies of capitalism.

True. But capitalism is an ideal - what you are doing is same as saying that "Stalin was not a true Communist!". Perhaps, but that is what the system had evolved into.
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
It actually can. Every single system holds the seeds of its own destruction. Likewise, unfettered capitalism invariably leads to socialism. While this depends on the exact niche - there are a few areas where small companies are more competitive than large ones - in major areas where larger companies are more competitive, result of unfettered capitalism is that companies merge and grow in size, and grow so large that they start influencing government. And once that happens, they destroy the free market by making government introduce more and more regulation - which automatically favours large entities as they have easier time either complying with it or else simply bribing officials.

Cruelty was normal in premodern world. You know how Byzantines blinded and/or cut off noses or ears of the political prisoners / deposed emperors? By standards of the time, that was kindness. Yes, Christianity did improve situation, compared to Mediterranean pagan religions - but it was not alone in that, albeit admittedly greatest strides in non-Christian areas happened in China.

Also, it can easily be said that Christianity - modern Christianity, at least - has gone too far in the opposite direction. Whereas its call against cruelty was a good thing back when cruelty was normal, in the modern world it may not be so good in many situations. A society that is not capable of properly applied cruelty is not capable of existence.

True. But capitalism is an ideal - what you are doing is same as saying that "Stalin was not a true Communist!". Perhaps, but that is what the system had evolved into.
When something 'evolves' into something else, it is no longer what it was. Capitalism cannot be faulted for un-capitalistic things, that's like blaming a drought for drownings. Christians cannot be faulted for what churchian pretenders do, either. The 'no true scotsman' fallacy requires moving goalposts so the 'true scotsman' can never be held accountable, but Christianity is pinned down to scripture, and capitalism is almost as well defined. Hold Christians to the bible, and capitalists to private ownership and free trade, and a whole lot starts to make sense -- for many of those who call themselves either, are neither.

You complain about 'the companies', but they only exist as they are as a direct function of government intervention. You say the companies 'make' government act in their interests, but this is false -- they influence humans to make irresponsible choices in elections, and influence human politicians to make irresponsible choices in governance. All of this come back to the morality of the people, or the lack thereof. Moral people would balk at well-advertised scum, and moral leaders would balk at immoral incentives to abuse their station.

If we were angels, 0% of what you describe would happen. We quite obviously are not, but blaming 'the companies', abstract legal constructs, for what we the people do, is lazy bullshit. It allows you to slide away from the question of personal morality and tilt at an abstract windmill. "The companies" are the safest target on the entire planet to complain about fruitlessly. The real problem is the people: any system of ownership and trade, from capitalist to communist, will fail when operated by selfish fools.

Humanity was wretched in pre-Christian times, and that wretchedness did not go away in a single generation. It took more than a thousand years of both Christian morals and eugenic population change to get us to where we were in 1900. It should not escape your notice that when we started sliding backwards was precisely the time much of the West decided they knew better than Lord, embraced the Synagogue of Satan, and worshiped money and material 'progress'.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top