Battletech Welcome to the Jungle

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Seems odd to turn a fire support mech into a direct fire mech but a assault weight flying Rifleman is a interesting take. Quick question I am not seeing the base Longbow being that much a upgrade to something like a Archer. A LRM 50 to the LRM 40 and the Archer actually has a secondary battery of 4 ML to the longbows 2. with the Archer being 15 tons lighter, faster, and having almost as much armor as the assault platform. Give the Archer 10 double heatsinks in the engine and its heat management issues become much less. Nice chapter it shows that Katrina and LIC is pulling out all the stops to ensure that the core is put to good use and not bite them in the ass later. Lockheed is one thing I would like to see the fallout should be impressive.
Here's the Longbow's Dashboard:
qo4Dw1W.gif


It's not terrible for what it does but the 7Q is dreadfully limited by the fact that it only does one thing. I've personally had decent results with it* but it has the problem that it's slow, and once an enemy gets within the minimum range of its missiles, it's got about the firepower of a Stinger despite being an assault. Generally, it's not good for something so slow to also have problems with range.

*Disclaimer: I've pretty much only used it in MegaMek against the computer. Human opponents are probably much tougher.
 

Atarlost

Well-known member
Seems odd to turn a fire support mech into a direct fire mech but a assault weight flying Rifleman is a interesting take. Quick question I am not seeing the base Longbow being that much a upgrade to something like a Archer. A LRM 50 to the LRM 40 and the Archer actually has a secondary battery of 4 ML to the longbows 2. with the Archer being 15 tons lighter, faster, and having almost as much armor as the assault platform. Give the Archer 10 double heatsinks in the engine and its heat management issues become much less. Nice chapter it shows that Katrina and LIC is pulling out all the stops to ensure that the core is put to good use and not bite them in the ass later. Lockheed is one thing I would like to see the fallout should be impressive.

Archer doesn't have a secondary battery of 4 ML. It has two secondary batteries of 2 ML If it doesn't let someone get behind it its lasers are every bit as anemic as the Longbow's.

A good all-range heavy cavalry-style ‘Mech, though? No, the Commonwealth hasn’t had that since the Highlander line was wrecked in the 2SW.
If 3/5/3 is a cavalry speed so is everything except the Urbie and Annihilator. Jump lets you move about a bit more flexibly, but not faster, mountaineers aren't cavalry.


Plus the Rifleman can point all the guns in its arms backwards.
So can the Longbow. Both mechs fall under the no forearm flippy arms clause.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Archer doesn't have a secondary battery of 4 ML. It has two secondary batteries of 2 ML If it doesn't let someone get behind it its lasers are every bit as anemic as the Longbow's.
the two rear facing lasers are in a turret on the top of the mech and thus in more realistic setting not quite as bound by tabletop rules should be able to fire forward as well
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
also it just occurred to me that the LCAF has a priceless opportunity to do a lot of a standardization on future LBX autocannon equipped designs. With presumably basically everyone who has the data doing a copy and paste of the LBX-10 design that the Catachan core had in it to get their designs finalized as fast as possible they can expand this with by making everyone use the same LBX 2s,5s, and 20s as well when they all get developed. This would greatly aid logistics(since all LBX guns of the same class would use the same parts and ammo) and simplify the training of the personnel who use them in combat and the ones who maintain them.
 
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Speaker4thesilent

Crazed Deplorable
If 3/5/3 is a cavalry speed so is everything except the Urbie and Annihilator. Jump lets you move about a bit more flexibly, but not faster, mountaineers aren't cavalry.
The agility of the jump jets makes it able to act a bit more like a very heavy cavalry ‘Mech. Remember, IRL the fog of war is very real, and having this thing vault over a line of buildings at you on a column of fire if going to be a hell of a nasty surprise.

It doesn’t have a Victor’s fuck-off autocannon, but paired LB-10Xs and paired LLs are no joke. And as soon as it makes a hole in your armor, it goes Crit seeking with 20 chances per round to find something juicy inside. Odds of serious critical damage get really high really fast under those circumstances. it goes from being situational, to being a mean brawler that’s also surprisingly agile in a knife fight.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
The agility of the jump jets makes it able to act a bit more like a very heavy cavalry ‘Mech. Remember, IRL the fog of war is very real, and having this thing vault over a line of buildings at you on a column of fire if going to be a hell of a nasty surprise.

It doesn’t have a Victor’s fuck-off autocannon, but paired LB-10Xs and paired LLs are no joke. And as soon as it makes a hole in your armor, it goes Crit seeking with 20 chances per round to find something juicy inside. Odds of serious critical damage get really high really fast under those circumstances. it goes from being situational, to being a mean brawler that’s also surprisingly agile in a knife fight.
Not to mention while its hidden behind buildings or terrain it can chuck some LRMs at you. Mind you not that many but enough to do armor damage and mess up anyone not in stuff with decent armor like say poor infantry on the ground or trucks hauling supplies. Or LRM and SRM carriers and other similarly poorly armored Mechs and combat vehicles
 
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PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Well done chapter.

Honestly, I would have kept it's basic mission and just add LB 10X and large laser, but there is already Archer which is better way of bringing double 20 racks into play, so I guess the Super Rifleman makes sense.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Well done chapter.

Honestly, I would have kept it's basic mission and just add LB 10X and large laser, but there is already Archer which is better way of bringing double 20 racks into play, so I guess the Super Rifleman makes sense.
Mind you the Steiner variant of the Archer drops the LRM 20s to LRM 15s in order to add a pair of SRM-4s. Of course with endosteel and using a bunch of LRM-5s you can have 40 LRMs per salvo and have your SRMs as well and add case to boot
 

Wargamer08

Well-known member
Mind you the Steiner variant of the Archer drops the LRM 20s to LRM 15s in order to add a pair of SRM-4s. Of course with endosteel and using a bunch of LRM-5s you can have 40 LRMs per salvo and have your SRMs as well and add case to boot
I feel like you’re hitting the point of diminishing returns with more then forty LRMs in a salvo. The bigger the mech, the more it needs to be able to operate out of its preferred roll and range bracket.
 

GROGNARD

Well-known member
I must have broken versions of BMD and SSW. I can't shoehorn all that + JJs into the frame: it's overweight.
Would love to see your stats on the beastie.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I must have broken versions of BMD and SSW. I can't shoehorn all that + JJs into the frame: it's overweight.
Would love to see your stats on the beastie.
Here's what I came up with:

Longbow LGB-variant
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3058
Config: Biped BattleMech
Mass: 85 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 255 Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Running Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: 3
Standard Jump Jet Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Standard Armament:
2 LB 10-X AC
2 Large Laser
2 Medium Laser
2 LRM 5
Manufacturer: StarCorps Industries
--------------------------------------------------------- Type/Model: Longbow LGB-7Q-131860 Mass: 85 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 130 pts Endo Steel 14 4.50 (1 HD,1 LA,1 LL,4 LT,1 RA,1 RL,5 RT)
Engine: 255 Fusion 6 13.00 Walking MP: 3 Running MP: 5 Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 3 1.00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 4 0.00
Armor Factor: 232 Standard 0 14.50 Internal Armor Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 27 37
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 18 26/26
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 14 23/23
L/R Leg: 18 28/28
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 10-X AC LA 2 6 11.00
1 Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
1 Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
1 LRM 5 LT 2 1 2.00
1 LB 10-X AC RA 2 40 10 15.00 (Ammo Locations: 2 LA,2 RA)
1 Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
1 Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
1 LRM 5 RT 2 24 2 3.00 (Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
3 Standard Jump Jets: - 0 3 3.00 (Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT,1 LL,1 RL)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 30 3 46.00
Crits and Tons Left: 6
Calculated Factors
Total Cost: 8,353,675 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):1629
Battle Value (BV2):1940

You can easily drop that 11th DHS for CASE in both arms to help prevent ammo Oopsies.

Edited for neatness.
 
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Atarlost

Well-known member
The agility of the jump jets makes it able to act a bit more like a very heavy cavalry ‘Mech. Remember, IRL the fog of war is very real, and having this thing vault over a line of buildings at you on a column of fire if going to be a hell of a nasty surprise.

It doesn’t have a Victor’s fuck-off autocannon, but paired LB-10Xs and paired LLs are no joke. And as soon as it makes a hole in your armor, it goes Crit seeking with 20 chances per round to find something juicy inside. Odds of serious critical damage get really high really fast under those circumstances. it goes from being situational, to being a mean brawler that’s also surprisingly agile in a knife fight.
The job of cavalry is pursuit, flanking, and rapid reinforcement. All of those require flat speed except flanking in mountains where the flanks are completely impassable to ground bound mechs. Flanking in mountains is traditionally a job for specialized infantry. Urban combat is also about as far from a traditional cavalry job as it's possible to get. Cavalry mechs can be good for urban combat, but they are not cavalry mechs by virtue of being good for urban combat. They're cavalry mechs by virtue of their movement profile starting with 5/8 or 6/9 and good at urban combat by virtue of it ending with /4, /5, or /6

A 300 foot jump distance is also insufficient for universal applicability to urban combat in a real map. A block must fit two reasonably sized floorplans back to back. Manhattan is narrow enough at 264 feet, but Chicago has 330 feet between streets and most US cities follow this. Melbourne, another relatively new city, has 660 foot square blocks subdivided by an alley that may or may not be wide enough for an assault mech to operate freely. I would expect large scale colonization of virgin planets to lead to most cities being grid plan since they're easy to lay out, but I would expect the 330 foot spacing dictated by the desired floorplan of an urban store to be more or less constant. If there are different typical block sizes in new cities in other parts of the world I would expect the 330 foot block to dominate at least the valuable ex-Hegemony.

Jumping on to city roofs a Longbow runs into two problems: it's 80 tons and may collapse unreinforced buildings, and that 300 foot horizontal jump only translates into 60 feet of vertical jump. This isn't nearly as bad as the poor Urbanmech, but the most built up urban centers are probably impassable to it off-road.
 

Wargamer08

Well-known member
The job of cavalry is pursuit, flanking, and rapid reinforcement. All of those require flat speed except flanking in mountains where the flanks are completely impassable to ground bound mechs. Flanking in mountains is traditionally a job for specialized infantry. Urban combat is also about as far from a traditional cavalry job as it's possible to get. Cavalry mechs can be good for urban combat, but they are not cavalry mechs by virtue of being good for urban combat. They're cavalry mechs by virtue of their movement profile starting with 5/8 or 6/9 and good at urban combat by virtue of it ending with /4, /5, or /6

A 300 foot jump distance is also insufficient for universal applicability to urban combat in a real map. A block must fit two reasonably sized floorplans back to back. Manhattan is narrow enough at 264 feet, but Chicago has 330 feet between streets and most US cities follow this. Melbourne, another relatively new city, has 660 foot square blocks subdivided by an alley that may or may not be wide enough for an assault mech to operate freely. I would expect large scale colonization of virgin planets to lead to most cities being grid plan since they're easy to lay out, but I would expect the 330 foot spacing dictated by the desired floorplan of an urban store to be more or less constant. If there are different typical block sizes in new cities in other parts of the world I would expect the 330 foot block to dominate at least the valuable ex-Hegemony.

Jumping on to city roofs a Longbow runs into two problems: it's 80 tons and may collapse unreinforced buildings, and that 300 foot horizontal jump only translates into 60 feet of vertical jump. This isn't nearly as bad as the poor Urbanmech, but the most built up urban centers are probably impassable to it off-road.
The Highlander is considered in-universe to be a heavy cavalry mech. I also don’t know many Battletech games that rule you collapse the building by jumping on it at pretty much any weight class. Basically, that might be your head cannon dude, but that’s not how it’s widely portrayed.

You’re also not going to see IS mechs with the speed you’re demanding and an appreciable weapon loadout. Weapons, speed, armour. Pick one and a half.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
The Highlander is considered in-universe to be a heavy cavalry mech. I also don’t know many Battletech games that rule you collapse the building by jumping on it at pretty much any weight class. Basically, that might be your head cannon dude, but that’s not how it’s widely portrayed.

You’re also not going to see IS mechs with the speed you’re demanding and an appreciable weapon loadout. Weapons, speed, armour. Pick one and a half.

The rules are petty clear in Classic BattleTech. If your weight exceeds the construction factor of the building you fall through the building till you hit ground.

Most just take the step of considering all the buildings hardened so each one can take an Atlas standing on it.
 
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Wargamer08

Well-known member
The rules are petty clear in Classic BattleTech. If your weight exceeds the construction factor of the building you fall through the building till you hit ground.

Most just take the step of considering all the buildings hardened so each one can take an Atlas standing on it.
Isn't that what I said? I've never seen anyone run a game where they actually went over construction factors for all the buildings and assigned different ones. I also can't recall any stories where a mech jumps on a building and falls through it. That's just not how the setting is portrayed or people interact with it. It's ragnarok proofing all the way down.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Isn't that what I said? I've never seen anyone run a game where they actually went over construction factors for all the buildings and assigned different ones. I also can't recall any stories where a mech jumps on a building and falls through it. That's just not how the setting is portrayed or people interact with it. It's ragnarok proofing all the way down.

If it were Ragnarok proofed, the fall of the Star League and the Succession Wars would not have seen the loss of technology they did. In the fluff, buildings are repeatedly destroyed in the setting by vehicles and 'Mechs moving through them. I'm not sure how you've missed that, but it's there.

As for table top games, I do it a lot, and many of the people I play with designate building strength. Oftentimes, it's as simple as (unless otherwise specified) the building category goes up as the building's hex-size increase.

1-hex = light
2-hexes = medium
3-hexes = heavy
4+hexes = hardened

Simple, easy, and gets you moving without having to keep marking up the board.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Advanced building rules should only come into gameplay when you are fighting the building itself. Such as clearing out an air-defense base with anti-dropship guns before a full assault, or dungeon crawling a Castle Brian.
 

Speaker4thesilent

Crazed Deplorable
The job of cavalry is pursuit, flanking, and rapid reinforcement.
That's light cavalry. Heavy cavalry is for riding right over your lines in a welter of gore.

Jumping on to city roofs a Longbow runs into two problems: it's 80 tons and may collapse unreinforced buildings, and that 300 foot horizontal jump only translates into 60 feet of vertical jump. This isn't nearly as bad as the poor Urbanmech, but the most built up urban centers are probably impassable to it off-road.
Any building insufficiently reinforced for it to walk on the rooftops is insufficiently reinforced to prevent it from playing Kool-Aid man and "Oh, yeah!"-ing right out the side for much the same result. And any decently old city in the Inner Sphere (which is most of them) is going to have a solid core of Star League era buildings that will be reinforced enough for roof hopping. The whole point of reconnaissance or planning is to discover/determine good ambush positions and attack routes that you can make use of.

Edit:
I must have broken versions of BMD and SSW. I can't shoehorn all that + JJs into the frame: it's overweight.
Would love to see your stats on the beastie.
Here's what I came up with:

Longbow LGB-variant
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3058
Config: Biped BattleMech
Mass: 85 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 255 Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Running Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: 3
Standard Jump Jet Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Standard Armament:
2 LB 10-X AC
2 Large Laser
2 Medium Laser
2 LRM 5
Manufacturer: StarCorps Industries
--------------------------------------------------------- Type/Model: Longbow LGB-7Q-131860 Mass: 85 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 130 pts Endo Steel 14 4.50 (1 HD,1 LA,1 LL,4 LT,1 RA,1 RL,5 RT)
Engine: 255 Fusion 6 13.00 Walking MP: 3 Running MP: 5 Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 3 1.00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 4 0.00
Armor Factor: 232 Standard 0 14.50 Internal Armor Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 27 37
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 18 26/26
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 14 23/23
L/R Leg: 18 28/28
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 10-X AC LA 2 6 11.00
1 Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
1 Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
1 LRM 5 LT 2 1 2.00
1 LB 10-X AC RA 2 40 10 15.00 (Ammo Locations: 2 LA,2 RA)
1 Large Laser RT 8 2 5.00
1 Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
1 LRM 5 RT 2 24 2 3.00 (Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
3 Standard Jump Jets: - 0 3 3.00 (Jump Jet Loc: 1 CT,1 LL,1 RL)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 30 3 46.00
Crits and Tons Left: 6
Calculated Factors
Total Cost: 8,353,675 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):1629
Battle Value (BV2):1940

You can easily drop that 11th DHS for CASE in both arms to help prevent ammo Oopsies.

Edited for neatness.
Specifics on the variant they will be running at first are, as yet, spoilers.
 

cawest

Active member
well i was first thinking that they were going to make the Shogun... but the new lower arms would be a problem. Also if they can get the support factories on line they can start getting cash flow coming in by selling spare parts. or using the parts in their highly trained refit yards. the DHS would be a huge market for the upgrading market.
 

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